Science Forums 2

[Shubee]

Originally Posted by Buffy

You might want to define more clearly what you mean by "creation"

By creation, I mean something out of nothing, as in Steven Hawking's book A Brief History of Time, where Hawking wrote that the big bang "smacks of divine intervention."

Originally Posted by Buffy

Be careful: just because quantum mechanics supports random effects does not mean that you can avoid the predictability of the convergent systems within which quantum matter exists.

It's has been a long time since I read of this result but I believe that there's a mathematical theorem that says something like "in any chaotic system there will be predicable effects." Sure. I believe in the law of large numbers.

Originally Posted by Buffy

According to conventional cosmology of course, the Universe has existed for a finite amount of time, but ignoring that and just looking at the issue as a problem in local application of quantum mechanics and mathematics, it would be worthwhile to try to explain why you believe that the number of those "pops" (and you might want to define that word as well) is *finite* over an *infinite* time span.

Isn't it customary to make hypotheses in physics based on empirical observations? I simply meant that the number of creation events is bounded whereas time is unbounded.

Originally Posted by Buffy

Since I'm not sure I understand your terms, I see no specific reason to question this other than the fact that in general probability is time bounded, and as time goes to infinity on any probability that is non-zero, then the number of occurrences should be unbounded as well.

I started off thinking that a creation event should have zero probability. If that is true, then there could be no limit to the number of special creation events in the universe, provided that the average time between such events is infinite. I finally settled on being as conservative as I my instincts will allow and thus conjectured, as per David Hilbert, that there will be no more than a fixed number of creation events in the eternity of time and not infinitely many.

Originally Posted by Buffy

Please define "probability amplitude." There's a "probability" that the folks who believe in a single big bang are right, and a probability that the folks who believe in a cyclic, multi-bang universe are right and also a probability that our Universe is steady-state. There are also probabilities for multiple universes existing, as well as probabilities that those multiple universes were created in different ways. Which one of these (or some other) are you referring to?

By probability amplitude, I simply meant the wave function, expressed as a function of position.

Originally Posted by Buffy

Actually, I really don't! Are you referring to the probability that an Earth could be formed in seven days versus 4.5 Billion years?

According to the Bible (Genesis 1) there were creation events for six days leading to the creation of man on this planet. God rested on the seventh day.

Originally Posted by Buffy

According to most phyisics, the latter is far more likely, although if you want to say its *possible* that an earth could be made to form in 7 days (well, six I guess) then I won't argue against there being a really, really small probability of that!

That's pretty much all that I've said. I would like to add though that there is a non-zero probability of the first man being assembled in a single day by that supervising probability amplitude according to conventional quantum physics.

Originally Posted by Buffy

You might though find that the requirements for such an occurrence with very specific parameters (meaning *exactly* like the forms we see in evidence here) would require forces that do not occur in our own Universe, although it might in some other!
So, sure, why not?

What do you mean by "forces that do not occur in our own Universe"? I'm referring to extraordinarily rare events that I expect only occur finitely many time in the eternity of time. If one zero probability creation event can occur (the big bang), what prevents a few more creation events from happening?