Quote:
Originally Posted by modest
I'll point out for anyone that is not familiar with steve 9, that his intention is to argue from the premise of a false dichotomy. He has carried this over from other forums that have come quickly to the conclusion that he is a troll.
His questions are of the form: either time is a real physical thing or not. Because real is not equivalent to physical there is no simple yes / no answer to his question. Yet steve will resist any attempt to rephrase the question or give more than a black and white yes / no answer as Craig just did. Notice from steve's post above:
Here time is either a "physical thing" (which of course it is not) or it's "just a concept". This is the very definition of a false dichotomy or false dilemma. Any detailed exploration of what time really is (such as I tried in post #330) is rejected by steve out of hand and goes nowhere.
~modest |
I ask if time is a physical thing or not. Simple question. You have said that time is not a physical thing, good, this is a start. So we can all agree that time is real to us, so the question is in what way does time exist for us? You have complained about this false dichotomy before, If you do not like the choices that I have given, or disagree with the way I have worded my question, then by all means do not feel confined to just my choices.
I say time is just a consideration, you disagree with this. You say time is not physical, great, so what is it?
Don't worry about how I have presented my questions regarding time. I just presented my questions in a way to get the conversation going.
Think about it, for something to exist for us it is either a physical thing or a consideration, in my opinion. If you know of a different way in which something can exist for us then let me know.
I am giving you full freedom to explain in what way you think time can exist.
You disagree that it is just a human consideration, O.K.
You say time is not physical, O.K
Now we are getting it narrowed down. So you have stated what time IS NOT. So can you state what time IS?
Enough with the protest about this false dichotomy business. I just posed a question to get the ball rolling, if you do not like the way it was posed then just come up with some scientific evidence that provides some data that time is more than just a consideration.
I have asked many times on this thread for any science that states time is something that exists in the physical universe. No one has provided any evidence of this.
Just to drive the point home.
Here is another black and white question.
Is there any scientific evidence that clearly provides data (any reference, observation, experiment) that states time is something that exist in some form in this universe? Y/N
You say time is not a consideration, you say time is not physical, you are almost there, just take that last step and say what time is. Of the ways in which you think that things can exist for us or be real to us, in what way do you think time exists?
This is a very simple question to resolve.
Is time physical? You say no.
Is time a consideration? You say no.
(Here is where you can provide another way in which you think something can exist or be real for us)
Please, I do not want to be accused of placing you in a position of having to only choose between what you consider a false dichotomy. You are free to come up with another option.
This should make it easier for you to simply state what time is.
You know if I am wrong about my view on what time is there should be some scientific evidence that you can provide that shows I am wrong, don't you think?
