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Originally Posted by Pyrotex
... Experienced within the Map by the point of consciousness, the "I" within the Map, which is itself just another item within the Map...
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You have made excellent posts on the topic. Clearly as you indicate the Territory is existence itself and it would seem that the OP question is thus answered. But I have a question about relationship of the Map and Consciousness.
You indicate that Consciousness also exists as a thing within the mind, same as elements of the Territory exist as things outside the mind. So I wonder, is it possible that the Unconsciousness is the Map but is not a thing that exists--it does all the things you mention that occur within the Map. Thus is it possible that the Consciousness as a thing that exists is 'outside' the Map, in the same way the ontological elements of the Territory are things that exist outside the Map ?
In other words, in the same way ontological elements of Territory interact with senses, which then send quantum data signals to the Map about the ontological elements (here I think of how hydrogen has a unique spectral signal--the three colored lines), is it possible that the Map (as the unconscious) is nothing more than the sum total of these quantum data signals as information and are then given to something outside of this matrix of information--namely the Consciousness, a thing that exists within the mind having identity separate from the Map ? What the Consciousness then does with these quantum data is what it evolved to do--to form concepts to increase probability of survival. Thus it is not the Map (the Unconsciousness) that provides interpretation of electo-chemical signals, it is the Consciousness (which is outside the Map) that provides interpretation, which leads to explanation, which leads to knowledge. I would view simple forms of living things as functioning only at the Map level of organization--at the level of action-reaction of that which is perceived by an Uncounscious mind--by a data matrix lacking power of interpretation.
Thus, is it possible the 'Mind' uses the Map (the Unconsciousness signal matrix) to create a mirror reality (concepts) of the Territory that is out-there (what we can call a veiled reality) that exists outside the Map but within the mind (within the Consciousness) ? If true then two different Territories must exist and this brings a second layer of meaning to the statement 'the Map is not the Territory'. Not only would the Map of Unconsciousness not be the Territory of existence out-there (outside the mind), it also would not be the Territory of existence within Consciousness (within the mind). I wonder if Korzybski addresses this logical possibility ?
