Science Forums 2

[Moontanman]

[quote]

Originally Posted by ldsoftwaresteve

And you should be proud of what you have stressed to them and proud of them for being intelligent enough to take something away from the system (but truthfully, they didn't. They took something away from you because you are a thinking adult and stress ideas at home. I proved that myself with my first two children. They had NO curriculum. All they had to do was read. The oldest is currently working on her masters in music at the U of Mn., the next is working on his doctorate in physics and math at Indiana. My point, as long as they are exposed to logical thought, they'll do fine. Amazing, but true.) But see, we're talking about a system which is supposed to teach them while we're working our asses off paying the taxes to pay for those new buildings, sports programs, etc. And now the failures of their learning should be placed on them and the parents? I accept the blame for my kids to the extent it is rightfully mine.

No I don't think you do and I'll explain why.

Why don't they learn to love learning in school?

It's not the job of school to teach kids to love learning, it's great if they do but that's our job as parents.

It's easy to say it's a matter of family and native intelligence but Montessori proved a long time ago that all kids have the ability to learn and if it's done properly the kids will all act like geniuses and they'll actually turn their hovels into little heavens.

And you think the schools are responsible for this? You don' think that indifferent parents that shirk their responsibility to their kids, fail to teach their kids basic values, fail to give their kids guidance, ignore and shove their kids off on the school system so the parents can pursue their own selfish life styles do not hold any responsibility? parents who do nothing but feed (and not always that) their kids and send them to school, never participate in over seeing their schools or the curriculum of the schools do not deserve credit for the failure of the child to learn?

When the school system has them for 8 hours a day for 12 years, that's a lot of time spent in that system.

Yes but the parents have the opportunity to spend a much higher quality of time by being a good example, by showing the value of knowledge, by taking control of what their kids do in their off hours instead of just wanting them out from under foot. parents have been found to have a much greater influence on children than even the parents know, what we do is much more important than what we say. Summer and weekends of being ignored by their parents and shoved off on the TV and the street do not allow the schools much of a chance to keep kids interested in learning.

Now you say that I should insist on real knowledge being taught..... And that implies that I'm still responsible for what the system is teaching, hence this particular 'argument' about evolution, etc. But, a system, which the schools system is (by definition) should be responsible for something. So what is it, exactly? What is its feedback mechanism that keeps it current and keeps it rational (and whose definition should we use?)? How does that 'system' function anyway?

You attend school board meetings, make sure their feet are held to the fire by someone other than a person who is more worried his little darling might hear about birth control than he is about real knowledge. You make sure your voice is heard, gather together like minded people, have meetings attend the PTA as a group make sure your voices are heard, for too often the only people doing this are not worried about anything bearing taught other than Sunday school. Make sure you let them know that you want reality taught, let the Churches teach about god, let the schools teach math, science, social studies, and language. If parents taught the basics of how to behave at home instead of sending their kids to school to learn to behave half the battle would be won.

Get involved with the PTA? That's strictly a make believe, pretend process whose main goal is to pass time. Your kids are only in one school for 3 or 4 years. By the time any concepts you'd like to implement would happen they're out of there and on to another mess. It's a con of a different nature. And it's set up that way on purpose. No way can you have an effect.

That is so wrong I cannot even understand how you got that idea, the PTA is powerful! And 3 or 4 years? I was involved with my children's schools from preK to grade 12, I volunteered, made sure the teacher knew i was interested, gave the teacher support in what ever way they needed. Chaperon class trips, read to the kids, spend the most valuable of all currency, your time!

As a property owner I'm paying for it whether or not I have children in it. And I'll pay for my whole life and as each year goes by I'll pay more and more and own my property less and less. So, after all that, what exactly is the benefit I'm getting? When and how did it happen that we agreed we'd rent our own property?

As a property owner you are paying for your government, it the only way the government can make money. If it's not being spent wisely it's your fault fro not being involved. believe it or not the few hundred dollars a year you pay in school taxes do not even come close to covering what the schools need. It's sad but true, I honestly don't know how it got that way but i suspect it has to do with people who whine and cry about their taxes but want premium services and the schools suffer because they are the easiest place to cut. Fewer people complain when class sizes become to big but if taxes go up a half a percent they cry like fire is being shoved up their ass.

And the accountability, as you so eloquently implied, is mine and my childrens. And I couldn't agree more. But where is the schools system's accountability? What am I paying all that money for anyway? If the blame is going to be put on me and mine, what happened to the 12 x 8 x # of days per year block of life?

The school system is only as good as the people who over see it. when the public stops ignoring it and stop allowing people who only want to save money to over see it you will get better schools, the schools accountability is ours, the schools are ours, we ignore them at the peril of our children.

But I understand how this works so I'll shut up. We don't want the factory workers to have to learn more than they need to, just enough to read the signs that tell them which side of the line to stay on, where the bathrooms are, etc. And if they need to read, just well enough to make sure they don't punch in on the wrong timesheeet. I suspect that the common folk think the school system is a hell of alot more than it really, really is. But they're used to getting screwed anyway so who cares? At least it baby sits their kids for them during the day.

Yup that the attitude that has gotten us where we are.

What a friggin mess. But what did we expect when we handed over the education of our kids to the government?

Yeah, it's always the fault of the government, but who is the government? Oh yeah , it's those other nasty guys, the ones we think are sending everything to hell in a hand basket. WHEN IS COMES THE LOCAL LEVEL WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT, WE HAVE REAL POTENTIAL FOR REAL CONTROL, IT'S WHY THINGS ARE SO F**KED UP NOW. BECAUSE THE LOCAL PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CONTROL ONLY WANT TO CONTROL. WE CAN CHANGE THIS BY TAKING RESPONSIBILITY! we might not be able to do much about what the feds do or even much of the state but the local government is small enough to be influenced at least. if your school system is in control of people who do not give you the services you want take control of it, spend the time it takes to make sure the people in control know what you want, if not put other people in control. It works quickly on a local level.

I wonder if my daughter qualifies for a bailout.

I don't know is she a greedy neocon controled corporation?