Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniteNow
Now, if you feel we still have not successfully connected our points on this, and you sense there still exists disagreement in our views, I'd be enormously curious to find out where and why. Cheers.
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No, I think you’re spot on with your response. I recognize my own genius and good judgment for knowing who to take this quandary to
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniteNow
You expressed concern that you supported the war in Iraq for similar humanistic reasons as Hitchens. Perhaps part of the problem here is your implicit idea that militancy is somehow bad.
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I won’t deny that, but I will word it very differently. I’ve avoided saying militant Humanism is bad or wrong and I’ve avoided faulting Hitchens for his position which I really couldn’t do without faulting myself for my own position anyway. I’m only saying that it worries me and it *is* something to consider. I’ll say that it bothers me because I can occasionally sound like a blithering idiot trying to support my own position on the topic. Following my own logic to its conclusion I’m essentially left saying “I sometimes support killing in the name of my belief system (atheistic Humanism), and I’ve decided that other people’s belief systems don’t merit the same right”. Maybe that’s good and moral (I won’t argue that one way or the other), but it’s nevertheless absurd. It would almost be funny if it weren’t so serious. Consider,
There is a group of people acting violently, fighting each other over some stupid medieval ideas. Enter the enlightened army of rationalism pointing their collective guns at the group and shooting them up a bit, saying “could you please cut out all this needless violence and learn to solve your problems with rational discourse... or we’ll kill some more of you.” It may sometimes be the right thing to do as you point out, but one sounds like a lunatic saying it out loud. And, I agree with you, Hitchens is a great debater, but even he sounds absurd trying to support this position.
Put it this way (as I dig my hole a little deeper
): when I sit down and try to figure out the differences between Stalinism and militant Humanism I get a little worried. Who said “I hate my enemies and I think the enemies of civilization should be killed.” That’s more or less what Stalin said while taking over half of Europe with the gulags and the doctor’s plot and all that, but the quote isn’t his. It’s Hitchens.
Yeah, it worries me and I don’t think this idea of militant atheism (notwithstanding the misnomer that it is) should be shrugged off so easily. Any group of people (including us enlightened Humanists) claiming moral superiority and asserting the right to kill others should probably bother themselves to consider what it is exactly they are saying and doing, and perhaps be a little worried in their conduct.
The video you posted touches none of that. Its content is all true, but it appears to me as slight of hand or misdirection. I'm extremely tempted to say that *all* militant belief systems are "bad" and atheistic belief systems are not exempt from that rule. But, I'll just go as far as saying that they all worry me, and it is probably very dangerous to shrug off the possibility or the risk of militant atheism (not that you have done that, INow, I'm just thinking out loud at this point)... and probably making very little sense. I'll get off my soapbox now.
~modest
