Science Forums 2

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Fishteacher73

As I brought up earlier, there is debate on whether the universe is deterministic (Due to the basic physics of it) or random..Check out this thread for a discussion on it Biochem., its pretty good. I started on the side of free will, but eventually conceded to the deterministic view. ...http://www.hypography.com/sciencefor...ead.php?t=1783...
One must rememer that even primordial Earth was a very complex system ....This pathway is chaotic, but not random. Given the original inputs, I feel that a very similar outcome is likely.

Thanks for the reference to this thread, FT. I have to admit that I was making the same transition (initially thinking random, moving to deterministic.) I am frankly having a hard time getting my head around the notion of C1ay's quark-gluon plasma (above) being deterministic, but that is really only because the complexity is so high. We could have had a deterministic chaotic environment with extraordinary complexity. It suggests that the level of complexity at the instant of the Big Bang was highest, and all subsequent systems formed were of less complexity as they organized. We eventually arrived at some systems that are not even chaotic. FT- Was that your conclusion?

Since we are in the philosophy thread (i.e., not basic science thread) I feel obligated to point out that acceptance of determinism does not obligate one to assume absence of free will. (I am only bringing this up to clarify nomenclature.) We still have the "first casue" issue: If a Creator set the Big Bang in play, the Creator could have separated some elements from the determinism, notably free will. If you think the deterministic nature of the universe was established in the absence of a Creator, this is Naturalism. If you think a Creator set the Big Bang in play (presumably with some intent), you are one of several categories of theist.

One interesting corollary: If we think the universe was deterministic since the Big Bang, this means it is the source of all information load. This means the the information load in DNA is miniscule compared to the information load in the Big Bang initial state.

(You notice I had to sneak some biochemistry back into the discussion.)