We seem to have a few misunderstandings
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Originally Posted by alexander
well, let me put it this way, a programmer explanation, you can write a program to do anything you want in a text editor, and although it might take you a few more key presses to create windows and generate menus, it is all doable, so C++ compiler and a text editor is the most powerful tool you can have
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I won't argue that you can write in binary or assembly, although I used to do it around '80. I wasn't talking only about programming and programmers, what I said about developping included complex web development. Try doing maintenace on an Enterprise webapp like the one I'm currently on.
The author of one Wrox book writes that, when the PC-journalists ask him which IDE he uses, he smiles and answers "Visual Notepad" but I think he was doing only JavaScript, I can't remember for sure but he wasn't doing EJB, servlet and also the whole chain down to the HTTP response.
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Originally Posted by alexander
but you can also do what they refer to as Visual programming. You can drag things into places, right click on it and assign them actions and names, and yes if you are short on time and dont care about performance, sure there are some nifty features of Visual programming, but is it anywhere as powerful as a programming in a text editor?
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I've tried out direct use of Win32 for windowing, just to gain better knowledge and understanding of what's under the bonnet. Surely you wouldn't reccomend developping an actual management project for a customer without using some app framework or another?
Performance is hardly an issue for the bare GUI itslef. If the execution on a user's click can take noticeable times you might need or want to optimize it, but this isn't really a matter of the actual GUI. Unless part of the trouble is interacting with controls, but even the overhead of this can't be improved much by use of Visual Notepad or Visual VI.
If execution upon a user's click takes no more than a 10th of a second, how much sense does it make to reduce that time? Even if you bring it down to a few microseconds or less, no customer will be glad to pay you more for such a feat. One customer was hopping with content because, when he ask me to improve a functionality that was monthly used by accountants to produce bunches of Excel worksheets according to data on DB2, a worksheet for each product, I also reduced the execution time which was measureable in hours and minutes. I brought it down by perhaps half or a third. That's a different matter.
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Originally Posted by alexander
Aah, Posix, why are you using posix again? there are better unix interfaces than straight up posix, try Bash
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I said Posix meaning the whole Posix compatible category. I have tried bash and I like it better than the other shells, though it is limited to its purpose and it certainly isn't C! Bash would be better, even just if you could define a function to return more than a byte, and use the return value in a more direct and comfy way. When I read that functions can be called recursively I thought, OK, let's try it, classic exercise: factorial(n). What a nightmare! It takes getting used to but, even when I got it straight, the limitations are obvious. I guess I'm just a C/C++ guy and I'm discontent enough with Coffee too. I've heard Perl is great, I'd probably like it if I took the time.
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Originally Posted by alexander
if i'm working on something i constantly have one to 2 (many times while programming in python i'll have 3-4, but those would be referencing pydoc) teminals with opened up man pages that way i can reference to them on the fly
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I take it you're not working on VTXYZ terminals but console emulator windows. If so, you are nevertheless exploiting a GUI feature!
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Originally Posted by alexander
there is no "it sometimes works" that my frieds found on the M$ site while seaching for information about active direcory i think, I'll have to ask again, but it was hilarious
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Yeah, I've seen and heard hilarious things. Have you ever heard the rumour about the back door in some versions of IIS?
