Science Forums 2

[damocles]

Originally Posted by erich

Yep.... That's me............. those postings with Clint and Eric put my concerns to rest, although embarrassing, they were simple math errors and NASA accepted Clint's corrections.

Glad to here it. His scalars may still be wrong.

What electrode problem? His work has a funding problem.

This electrode problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnsworth-Hirsch_Fusor

Electrodes
There are a number of unsolved, and possibly unsolvable, problem with the electrodes in a fusor power system. To begin with, the electrodes cannot influence the potential within themselves, so that the fusion plasma will be in more or less direct contact with the inner electrode, resulting in contamination of the plasma and destruction of the electrode. Also, the transparency of the electrode will have to be unbelievably good since an ion will have to pass through it on the order of 1010 times before undergoing a fusion reaction. (See Inertial confinement fusion.)

This is equally acute in;

http://www.focusfusion.org/what/plasmafocus.html

Simple and dirty explanation: The generated plasma has a property called impingement. It contacts the anode, pitting it. This destroys the anode via uneven surface cratering. Result? The anode erodes.

1,2,3 & 4: Power chips (and Cool Chips) are quantum tunneling thermocouples not PV.

I know this. Perhaps you thought that I was referring to TMCs as PV cells in powering locomotives? Sorry. I need to be clearer in writing I suppose. What I thought I was writing was that these TMCs would convert waste heat into additional current for locomotive traction motors. Chorus motors are scalable for such traction motors. Where I seem to have confused youi was failing to clarify that the TMCs were ancillary to primary current supply by hydrogen fuel cell and/or PV cell.

Subsequently I read;

The Thermionic locomotive (and car) would work like this: Solar direct hydrogen (or bio-hydrogen) http://www.hydrogensolar.com/index.html ....is stored with an equal energy density of diesel in cheap graphite

That, we are in agreement. That is a fuel-celled locomotive hydrogen storage system up to that point.

New look for hydrogen storage (July 2005) - News http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/7/10 ....Burned.... direct heat to electric Power Chips (@ 80% carnot efficiency).....to Chorus electric motors drives ( 300% increase in torque with equal loads ).
......and you get to over 50% well to wheel efficiency and there ain't no wells.

Okay. Suppose you do burn the hydrogen for heat and use your TMCs for heat to electric current direct conversion? The efficiencies are closer to 30-40% by the time that wheel turns on that rail. Burning hydrogen and putting that heat to work is not as efficient as some might claim.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...mo/carnot.html

Ideally the situation has us taking hydrogen at 300 degrees kelvin and burning it at 500 degrees kelvin for a Carnot cycle efficiency of 66% in an idealized TMC powerchip which outputs it as electric current.

But; that is current fed to a traction motor, correct?

http://www.powerchips.gi/technology/pcalc.shtml

Realistically due to material retardation in the TMCs, we should expect real world thermal to electric efficiencies of less than fifty percent before we ever feed current to the traction motor.

http://www.uow.edu.au/~mo15/O'Dwyer,...ess%202005.pdf

Here we have problems with some claims, specifically for the Chorus motor;

http://www.memagazine.org/supparch/m...m/5thharm.html

The Chorus motor actually benefits from a harmonic-laden waveform, Edelson said. Since all the harmonics up to the phase count contribute to rotor rotation, a motor can be made more efficient by as much as 3 percent. To lay ears, that might not sound like much. But the typical 10-hp three-phase motor is already 90 percent efficient, he said. A 3 percent efficiency gain equates to a 30 percent reduction in the losses. From the start, users of high-phase order machines are using less electricity.

Let me say that again; a three percent gain in efficiency here.

So that thermionic locomotive, will be somewhat akin to the efficiency of the standard more 'conventional' hydrogen fuel-celled cousin. What you haven't considered is that it is not as scalable to size as the fuel-celled cousin. Perhaps 1200 HP output? That is a small locomotive for hauling a long train up the Rockies?

Then we have this little problem. Remember this cite you suppiied ?

http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/7/10

According to their calculations, thin layers of graphite or graphene -- two-dimensional sheets of carbon atoms -- spaced between 6 and 7 Angstroms apart can store hydrogen at room temperature and moderate pressures of just 10 MPa. Moreover, the amount of hydrogen stored comes close to a practical goal of 62 kilograms per cubic metre set by the US Department of Energy. Another advantge of the graphite is that the hydrogen gas can be released by moderate warming.

That got me to thinking;

A. Casimir Effect;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=731897

In 1997, Researchers led by Steve Lamoreaux at the Los Alamos National Labs were able to create an experiment accurate and sensitive enough to measure the Casimir force. Recently, experiments at Purdue University, led by Professor Ephraim Fischbach, have verified the effect to within 5% of Casimir's original predictions. They team used a MEMS torsional oscillator plate and a gold-plated aluminum sphere (easier than two plates to align properly) to measure the force, varying the distance between the two structures from 200 nanometers to 2 microns.

Ouch.

B. Van der Waals forces:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae206.cfm

Hydrogen bonding is the third type of van der Waals' forces. It is exactly the same as dipole-dipole interaction, it just gets a special name. A hydrogen bond is a dipole dipole interaction that occurs between any molecule with a bond between a hydrogen atom and any of oxygen/fluorine/nitrogen. So, Hydrogen Fluoride (HF), Water (H2O), ammonia (NH3)....any kind of substance that has a hydrogen bonded to either an oxygen, fluorine or nitrogen atom, exhibits hydrogen bonding. The hydrogen bond is just the dipole dipole force but it is extremely strong compared to either dipole dipole forces like HCl. It is extremely strong because F N and O are extremely good at attracting electrons and H is extremely good at losing them. So basically, the bond is EXTREMELY a one-sided affair, resulting in an extreme dipole situation, thus named, a hydrogen bond. The extremely positive side of the molecule will orient itself with the extremely negative side of another molecule.

You can see what happens if there is any kind of 'oxygen' contamination of the proposed hydrogen storage scheme?

Double ouch.

5: Here's another solar approach, they claim a 50 MW array will produce at $.046/KWhr Barnabus Energy, Inc. (OTC BB : BBSE) Investor Facts http://www.otcfn.com/bbse/report.html

Despite my dead link I GOOGLED for it and I like Barnabus Energy a lot. The company has a very practical market-driven approach to renewables, and their technologies make a great deal of sense to me.

I finally found some more specific info on the Suncone, The numbers look better than any solar technology I have seen at this level of development, that you can invest in. The credentials and track record of Dr. Melvin L. Prueitt are most impressive, And the solar roofing technology they are acquiring also looks solid.
Sustainable Resources, Inc. - The Suncone Solar Power Generator

http://www.barnabusenergy.com/en/projects/suncone.asp

Its a GOOD design for that niche application of "solar' in the GSWB category, I discussed above. It is scalable solar power for the homesteader being this specific example.

The practicality here; is that the homeowner is not confronted with an excessive life cycle system cost, or maintenance load beyond what I would expect for the family car. Added to that, is the fact that the Suncone; if necessary can be fited with a simple fixed suntracker drive in azimuth to point the collector at the sun. I like that.

6: Again I was speaking of using arrays of thermocouples to recapture waste heat back to work.

Noted. I suggest though that this solution is best left to chemical energy systems as the waste heat recovery for those systems is simple to engineer. There are serious(as in deadly) engineering issues with trying to incorporate TMCs in a fusor design.

ADDENDUM; I seem to recall a research paper somewhere;

http://www.gerhard.de/gerold/owa/ger...orm_language=1

PB-11 hydrogen/boron fusion produces radioactive carbon 12 and up to 0.1% neutrons as ancillary byproducts. Nasty. Have to shield against that.

Best wishes;