How soon will a moneyless society change the way we percieve each other?

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

If you fully understand and appreciate to what I am refering, I would be most interested to hear your views.

I think I’ve a reasonable understanding of the subject of “moneyless society”, but not your particular views on it, Peacemaker. I look forward to reading them.

I’d like to turn the question around on you, and ask, that you read the hypography thread Moneyless society : Would it benefit society?, and give your opinion on the many points raised there.

Also, are you familiar with fictional treatments of the subject, such as Charles Stross’s ”Accelerando” (available in its entirety online for free, in libraries, or via traditional commercial stores)

[Buffy]

Honestly, don't send us to a 65 page document. Lets discuss the key points here if you want to.

Please remember this is a Science Forum, and you're going to have to provide some logic backed by facts if you want to get anywhere here: "solutions" of the form "all we have to do is get everyone to believe in this 65-page document" will gain no traction here....

Creating Nirvana is easy: just kill everyone who disagrees with you,
Buffy

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by DougF

It has been said that money is the root to all evil,
?

Its the Love of money that is the root of all evil.
Not Money itself..

Is this thread trying to make a distinction between a cashless society or a moneyless society ??

Becuz' insert the term 'Money' to use for trading purposes.
I can grow 20 pounds of Carrots for $50, while you can mine 20 ounces of Copper for an equivalent $50. (you get my point)

Money is the medium unto which there is trade.

Otherwise it becomes a complete Barter System..
And that has less restirction or regulation to it..
And thusly will become a Zen matter of what people need at that time. a free market in and of itself still, but to much more haggling and debate..

[DougF]

Peacemaker

Hi again Doug, Well, lets talk about the crimes you mention. Firstly, drug production and trafficking would end extremely repidly, because with no money to be made by producing or supplying drugs to the general poopulation, what motive would anyone have to do it? (except possibly for existing addicts who had access to the raw materials and knowhow to make enough for their habit?). As to the rest, another vital ingredient of the society I foresee is to end violence in all its forms. Violence will be the only crime anyone will be able to commit, and I predict that within 7 days of the introduction of this way of thinking, the vast majority of the crimes to which you refer will just stop. They will stop because we will see each other very differently, we will see every single human being on this planet as family. This is a small part of the evolution I am referring to.

The usual to you and yours Doug, all the best!

existing addicts who want drugs will still your plasma TV (we still have TV's don't we) and Barter it for drugs (IE: no monies.) and even the John Joe down the street if wants a bag of Weed he'll trade his homegrown tomato's for it (IE: no monies) if the people want it they well get it.
Rape has no monetary value (not for profit IE: no monies)

within 7 days of the introduction of this way of thinking, the vast majority of the crimes to which you refer will just stop.

Lead Follow or get out of the way.

Racoon
Its the Love of money that is the root of all evil.
Not Money itself..

yes I agree.

[quote]Racoon
is this thread trying to make a distinction between a cashless society or a moneyless society ??[/Quote
moneyless, I think, were working on that.

Racoon
Becuz' insert the term 'Money' to use for trading purposes.
I can grow 20 pounds of Carrots for $50, while you can mine 20 ounces of Copper for an equivalent $50. (you get my point)

If their isn't any money

Racoon
Money is the medium unto which there is trade.

yes now but I'm waiting to see where Peacemaker takes us.
[quote]Racoon
Otherwise it becomes a complete Barter System..
And that has less restirction or regulation to it..
And thusly will become a Zen matter of what people need at that time. /Quote]
sounds good too me.

[InfiniteNow]

Take away money and you will still trade for reproductive opportunity. We still trade emotional connection. We will still trade knowledge. Your 65 page panacea seems to miss the bigger point.

[DougF]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Take away money and you will still trade for reproductive opportunity. We still trade emotional connection. We will still trade knowledge. Your 65 page panacea seems to miss the bigger point.

I guess I'm going to drop back and read these 65 pages, I'll be back in a sec.

[Zythryn]

A moneyless society will NEVER exist, IF by money you mean a method of barter/trade.
You would need to eliminate the desire of hoarding, as well of having something. If more people desire something than can be produced, there will be demand for it. How do you decide who gets the item(s)?

OK, I will modify my original statement. A moneyless society can exist ONLY when every single individual has no needs or wants. Has everthing they desire to have.
So, while I like the idea of there being no need in the world, I don't believe that is possible with todays technology nor with this number of humans on the planet as we simply don't have the raw resources to provide everyone with everything they need, much less want.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Originally Posted by peacemaker

When I refer to a truly moneyless society, I mean a way of life which does not weigh the worth of a human being in money or property, but treasures that person simpy because he/she is a human being and as such, a member of, potentially, the most evolved species in the known universe.

Okay, you don't mean a moneyless society, you mean a society without society. (I'd also note that B doesn't necessarily follow A there. Maybe we treasure people not by money or property but by fertility or humor.)

Society (the way you use the term) is ABOUT setting up little tribal affiliations and packs of "us and them" and valuing people by some external (unrelated) criteria. What would you propose society would DO if it didn't give us the framework in which to evaluate people?

I'm assuming that by "society" you mean neither "economy","collection of rich people", or "political system" but "shared social moral system between a group of individuals" - which I find to be basically equivalent to "cultural mores" - which in order to function at all require that you BE A PART of said culture. Otherwise -- well you don't really share the morals do you?

Like most forms of utopias, and perfect societies, etc it has a hidden cost - which is that everyone has to get on board at the same time and then STAY on board. Then there has to be a way to enforce the conformity which is necessary for that kind singularity of purpose. Normally that kind of group solidarity is achieved through rituals, community events, and other shared practices. It's called communitas and you gotta get it if you want everybody to feel like they're part of some "bigger" than themselves.

Even if you could somehow structure your perfect society so that everyone is included and you don't have to have an "other" to pit all your member against - what will you do when somebody gets "off the reservation?" Gonna kill 'em outright? Brain surgery? Drugs?

Utopias are always the most dangerous societies to live in.

Eventually though you're just valuing people by how much they conform to your main principle there (of valuing everybody equally)- which of course is a violation of your main principle.

TFS

[Peacemaker]

Hi Buffy, have you had a bad day? You sound much more negative and abrupt today than previously. Clearly you didn't read, or understand the answers I gave to your questions. Please try to understand what I am telling you. There are no proofs. This has never been succesfully attempted before.
This is new. For a simple idea, it takes all your cognitive process to calm down enough to actually think about it. You may think you currently know, better than I do, how to improve the lot of mankind on this planet. I don't believe you do, I believe that you are having the usual knee-jerk reaction to a theory you have no knowledge of. It's a wall I have to batter down every time I speak to somebody new about this. It usually takes between two and five hours. By then, normally intelligent people realise that I, as an intelligent man, have thought about this for more than five minutes, and that I can demonstrate exactly what I am talking about, given a chance.This is not a mathematical formula. It is a way of being. Have faith, and continue reading, but with an open mind.

Peacemaker.

[Peacemaker]

Hi Doug,

'I think I’ve a reasonable understanding of the subject of “moneyless society”, but not your particular views on it, Peacemaker. I look forward to reading them.'
If you wish to get a flavour of my theory, before I introduce the new improved version, try typing WWW.Driftwood.me into your address line. These documents were produced by a man called Melvin Chapman. He is now 92 years old and his writings reflect the predispositions of his time. Despite that, if read with an open mind, his view of the way we currently percieve all that is around us is remarkable. I have to say that I came to my views with no assistance from Melvin's work, however I was impressed with the depth of his perception. Please spend some time reading and understanding these documents, then ask your questions.
Best regards,
Peacemaker.