How soon will a moneyless society change the way we percieve each other?

[DougF]

Hello: Peacemaker

Peacemaker
Hi Doug,

'I think I’ve a reasonable understanding of the subject of “moneyless society”, but not your particular views on it, Peacemaker. I look forward to reading them.'

thank you, once I read your work I;ll be more then happy to share my views with you.

If you wish to get a flavour of my theory, before I introduce the new improved version,

I'll wait to read your work.

try typing WWW.Driftwood.me into your address line. These documents were produced by a man called Melvin Chapman. He is now 92 years old and his writings reflect the predispositions of his time. Despite that, if read with an open mind, his view of the way we currently percieve all that is around us is remarkable. I have to say that I came to my views with no assistance from Melvin's work, however I was impressed with the depth of his perception. Please spend some time reading and understanding these documents, then ask your questions.
Best regards,
Peacemaker.

Melvin Chapman is a good Wrighter, and I will discuss his work when he joins Hypography and creates a thread.
and I'll ask questions on your work, after I get to read them.

[LunaWolfe]

Thanks to Racoon for clarifying the bible quote.... LOVE of money is the root of all evil. In other words: GREED! Although I think money has helped make it easier for us to BE greedy because we focus on accumulating money rather than on other forms of wealth or happiness.

[LunaWolfe]

Originally Posted by TheFaithfulStone

Like most forms of utopias, and perfect societies, etc it has a hidden cost - which is that everyone has to get on board at the same time and then STAY on board. Then there has to be a way to enforce the conformity which is necessary for that kind singularity of purpose.
Even if you could somehow structure your perfect society so that everyone is included and you don't have to have an "other" to pit all your member against - what will you do when somebody gets "off the reservation?" Gonna kill 'em outright? Brain surgery? Drugs?

Utopias are always the most dangerous societies to live in.

Eventually though you're just valuing people by how much they conform to your main principle there (of valuing everybody equally)- which of course is a violation of your main principle.

TFS

Excellent observations! It is one of the most challenging aspects of trying to work out an improved society.... how to address the challenge of those who don't agree! Heinlien offered the choice of intensive psychotherepy or being sent "over the wall to Coventry". I think that the answer to what to do with dissenters says a lot about the social theory.
I also applaud the observation of valuing people by how they conform to the ideal (which in itself betrays the ideal!) Changing people's thinking, including our own, is more challenging than solving many complex technical problems, and yet thought has such a profound effect on how we live and relate.
Finally, why are Utopias the most dangerous societies to live in? As far as I know, no one has ever had a Utopia to live in! How do we know it's dangerous until we try it?

[LunaWolfe]

just a note on the url: it needs a ".uk" after the "driftwood.me" (I'm not allowed to post the actual url yet")
If you leave off the ".uk" the page won't be found. And since the shortest document there is an 82 page "summary and addendum", I'm looking forward to a mere 65 pages. However, I would think that a writer such as yourself could possibly sumarize for your impatient web audience some of the key points that make the theory make sense.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Utopias are dangerous because as soon as you have a (too) original thought some one sends you "over the wall to Coventry," as it were.

Walking away from Omelas,
TFS

[Peacemaker]

Thank you all for your very practical feedback. I apologise if I appeared tetchy in my replies.

Problem is, I AM very angry at the moment. Every time I watch the daily news I despair at the waste of human life, and of our global resources. I am sick to death of seeing innocents die because of the wrong-headedness of mankind, and our refusal to accept simple logic.

Mankind already knows many of the simple steps we have to take to evolve, we even sing songs about them, but we refuse to accept them as viable alternatives because the have been labelled 'impractical'.

This is because mankind, as a species, doesn't currently possess the imagination to really 'get it', and doesn't dare to dream that in a very short time we can achieve heaven on earth.
Just by being nice to each other. (It's a law)
Just by sharing everything, equally. (That's another one)
Just by changing your mind about the way wonderful things can be achieved (That's not one, but maybe it should be.)
Just by erasing all the national borders on maps and calling ourselves Earthlings, instead of Americans, or Africans, or any of the other labels we currently bear with misguided pride.
That small step would help to end war. Forever.
There is so much more, and so little time. Please, read the document with an open heart and an open mind. Help your species end the vast majority of the bad stuff, now.

...and wouldn't you be angry if you knew what I know? Wouldn't your heart be breaking every time you see what stupidity we come up with next?

I applaud all the good stuff that goes on on this planet, but...

Best regards,

Peacemaker.

[Peacemaker]

Thank you all for your very practical feedback. I apologise if I appeared tetchy in my replies.

Problem is, I AM very angry at the moment. Every time I watch the daily news I despair at the waste of human life, and of our global resources. I am sick to death of seeing innocents die because of the wrong-headedness of mankind, and our refusal to accept simple logic.

Mankind already knows many of the simple steps we have to take to evolve, we even sing songs about them, but we refuse to accept them as viable alternatives because the have been labelled 'impractical'.

This is because mankind, as a species, doesn't currently possess the imagination to really 'get it', and doesn't dare to dream that in a very short time we can achieve heaven on earth.
Just by being nice to each other. (It's a law)
Just by sharing everything, equally. (That's another one)
Just by changing your mind about the way things can be achieved (That's not one, but maybe it should be.)
Just by erasing all the national borders on maps and calling ourselves Earthlings, instead of Americans, or Africans, or any of the other labels we currently bear with misguided pride.
That small step would help to end war. Forever.
There is so much more, and so little time. Please, read the document with an open heart and an open mind. Help your species end the vast majority of the bad stuff, now.

... and wouldn't you be angry if you knew what I know? Wouldn't your heart be breaking every time you see what stupidity we come up with next?

I applaud all the good stuff that goes on on this planet, but...

Best regards,

Peacemaker.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Sigh. I'm hoping your 67 page document-of-hope includes something a little bit more concrete than

"Everybody stop being dicks to each other!!"

Cause umm... somebody already said that. Unfortunately, the organization his adherents founded has kind of a poor track record of living up to his expectations.

TFS

[Peacemaker]

OK.

I've tried pressing the cute little 'manage attachments' button, attached my document to it, so that it is showing up on the pane as a word document, pressed the attach button, but nothing,

Please help?

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

OK.

I've tried pressing the cute little 'manage attachments' button, attached my document to it, so that it is showing up on the pane as a word document, pressed the attach button, but nothing,

Please help?

You've most likely just uploaded the file, but failed to attach it. From within the body of the text editor, click the cute little paperclip again and try selecting your file from the drop-down.