5th Dimension theory

[steve 9]

Originally Posted by UncleAl

If you want a physical dimension the math is explicit and trivially manipulated. If you want compactified dimensions you have one charge dimension, two isospin dimensions, and three color dimensions atop the usual three plus time. Their physical meaning is debatable. If you want to play games like Heinlein's Number of the Beast you have three space axes (x,y,z) and three time axes (t, tau, teh). Time travel violates causality. The universe does not tolerate contradictions.

You cannot expect an answer of any better quality than that of the question you ask.

Do you even know what you are saying? Tell me, are spatial dimensions physical things? Yes/no.

[Ramkumara]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Time travel violates causality only if you think there is only one version of reality. If you think that quantum theory should be taken literally then time travel does become possible. When you go back in time you would start a new time line separate from the one you were in before you went back. In fact you have instantly created a new time line separate from the other. In the old you never went back in time, in the new one you did. This of course would set the stage for even more time lines as you move around and disturb the new time into separate time lines. It just depends on whether or not you take your quantum mechanics straight or mix it with parallel worlds.

I do not understand you. How will you go back in time? Objects that has inertial mass cannot reach the speed of light itself. Let alone crossing it. The speed of light in vacuum is a constant. Electromagnetic radiations of all wavelengths travel at the same speed as that of visible light. What you think can travel faster than light and will take you back in time. That is why I say time travel is not possible and it violates causality as well.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Ramkumara

I do not understand you. How will you go back in time? Objects that has inertial mass cannot reach the speed of light itself. Let alone crossing it. The speed of light in vacuum is a constant. Electromagnetic radiations travel at the same speed as that of light. What you think can travel faster than light and will take you back in time. That is why I say time travel is not possible and it violates causality as well.

Time travel doesn't necessitate traveling faster than light and traveling faster than light doesn't necessarily mean time travel. A "time machine" could, at least in theory be made but it would require things we cannot reproduce or build at this time (maybe never) things like negative mass, worm holes, rotating super dense cylinders, cosmic strings. Lots of theoretical ways to bend space time back on it's self, there are even theoretical ways to travel faster than light. Some scientists are actually beginning to think it might an engineering problem rather an impossibility. The main thing about time travel is you probably couldn't go back in time any further than the instant the machine was turned on. That kind of takes the fun out of it but doesn't make it impossible. Even if actual time travel of a person is impossible sending signals back wouldn't as difficult but it would be just as damaging to causality. I try to keep an open mind about these things but not open enough that my brain falls out. I'll wait until some smart guy actually does it before I will totally commit my self. BTW quantum mecahnics does provide for a way for causality to be preserved but as I said that would be a "many worlds" type problem.

[steve 9]

Originally Posted by Becca

We will probably never know much about any of those higher dimensions because we can't perceive them in any way that we can with the others. I don't think time travel would be a dimension though, it's a movement through some or all of the others.

Tell me how you percieve dimensions. Go ahead and tell me what perceptics you use to percieve dimensions. Also, look in any scientific reference book and see if you can find a definition for dimension that states they are physical things.

[steve 9]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Time travel violates causality only if you think there is only one version of reality. If you think that quantum theory should be taken literally then time travel does become possible. When you go back in time you would start a new time line separate from the one you were in before you went back. In fact you have instantly created a new time line separate from the other. In the old you never went back in time, in the new one you did. This of course would set the stage for even more time lines as you move around and disturb the new time into separate time lines. It just depends on whether or not you take your quantum mechanics straight or mix it with parallel worlds.

Time is a consideration, not a physical thing. Show scientific evidence that says otherwise. What you said in the above quote is your concept, not based on reality.

[steve 9]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

One way to look at the fifth dimension is connected to two different space-time references interacting. The more contracted reference sees things different in space and time. If we didn't know it was in another reference, but it was interacting with our reference, the affects would appear to be off in terms of cause and affect in our reference. For example, time dilation within the fast reference makes a person appear to age slower. If we didn't know he was in a fast reference, but assumed he was in our reference, it would appear like he had new virtual biology. If one is aware of the reference difference, and can compensate for these differences, the fifth dimension can be factored out.

It is possible we are not fully aware of all reference interactions since high GR is different than low GR. While, by convention, we only use the zero reference to coordinate universe gravity. If there was reference interaction this assumption may create anomalies needing the 5th D.

Go define dimension. What is this high Gr and low GR stuff? Show a reference that states this.

[Ramkumara]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Time travel doesn't necessitate traveling faster than light and traveling faster than light doesn't necessarily mean time travel. A "time machine" could, at least in theory be made but it would require things we cannot reproduce or build at this time (maybe never) things like negative mass, worm holes, rotating super dense cylinders, cosmic strings. Lots of theoretical ways to bend space time back on it's self, there are even theoretical ways to travel faster than light. Some scientists are actually beginning to think it might an engineering problem rather an impossibility. The main thing about time travel is you probably couldn't go back in time any further than the instant the machine was turned on. That kind of takes the fun out of it but doesn't make it impossible. Even if actual time travel of a person is impossible sending signals back wouldn't as difficult but it would be just as damaging to causality. I try to keep an open mind about these things but not open enough that my brain falls out. I'll wait until some smart guy actually does it before I will totally commit my self. BTW quantum mecahnics does provide for a way for causality to be preserved but as I said that would be a "many worlds" type problem.

You yourself contradict your statement. As you say even if you have those things that do not exist today or cannot be produced in the future, you probably couldn't go back in time any further than the instant the machine was turned on. I appreciate you keeping an open mind about this. But for now or in the future (theoritically), it is impossible for anything that has inertial mass to travel at the speed of light. But only with those with mass can measure time. Photons or radio waves has no inertia and they travel at a velocity that is equal to c. Time is insignificant for these as they do not travel at a velocity other than c. You need an inertial reference frame to measure the time it travels that simply do not exist.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Ramkumara

You yourself contradict your statement. As you say even if you have those things that do not exist today or cannot be produced in the future, you probably couldn't go back in time any further than the instant the machine was turned on. I appreciate you keeping an open mind about this. But for now or in the future (theoritically), it is impossible for anything that has inertial mass to travel at the speed of light. But only with those with mass can measure time. Photons or radio waves has no inertia and they travel at a velocity that is equal to c. Time is insignificant for these as they do not travel at a velocity other than c. You need an inertial reference frame to measure the time it travels that simply do not exist.

Why do you find my statement contradictory? If you were able to use negative mass or energy to make a worm hole to create a time machine you couldn't travel back any further than the instant the machine was turned on? Is this the statement you mean? This is why time travel wouldn't be as much fun as most people would think. As long as the machine exists you could travel back and forth through that time period. Most people think of seeing the dinosaurs or watching ancient history but unless your machine was built before those time periods you couldn't go back that far. As for faster than light, you do have a point, you cannot, through what we would call normal means, accelerate a material object to or faster than the speed of light. But if you create an isolated pocket of space/time around your vessel and then expand space behind the space/time pocket and compress it ahead or your space/time pocket you could accelerate to any speed you wanted without breaking the universal speed limit (Alcubierre drive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), while this is a theoretical way to go faster than light it is still far beyond even knowing if the engineering can be done or not much less doing it. Then of course you have worm holes which are just as difficult to make and use. Heim theory suggests it might be a little bit easier but it is still an unconfirmed theory. (Take a leap into hyperspace - fundamentals - 05 January 2006 - New Scientist) While none of these things can be used or even known if they could ever be used they do point out that the speed of light may one day be, if not broken then at least cheated.

[arkain101]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Time travel violates causality only if you think there is only one version of reality. If you think that quantum theory should be taken literally then time travel does become possible. When you go back in time you would start a new time line separate from the one you were in before you went back. In fact you have instantly created a new time line separate from the other. In the old you never went back in time, in the new one you did. This of course would set the stage for even more time lines as you move around and disturb the new time into separate time lines. It just depends on whether or not you take your quantum mechanics straight or mix it with parallel worlds.

This strays from the type of "time travel" that is being discussed. You are refering to traveling to new realities... not in the past of the current on you reside within.

So if you were to travel into a "new time line" how would you know you were going into the past or the future in respect to that timeline? Especially when you are not traveling in time any differently that you are today as you hop along 1 second every 1 second.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by arkain101

This strays from the type of "time travel" that is being discussed. You are refering to traveling to new realities... not in the past of the current on you reside within.

So if you were to travel into a "new time line" how would you know you were going into the past or the future in respect to that timeline? Especially when you are not traveling in time any differently that you are today as you hop along 1 second every 1 second.

You misunderstand what I was saying. The act of traveling back in your own time line would cause it to split into two timelines, one where you never went back in time and one where you did. I'm not sure that raveling to a complety new timeline is covered by time travel.