UFO evidence

[stereologist]

The perpetrators of the UFO hoax in New Jersey have posted videos showing the way that they performed the hoax. What is interesting is that some people clearly saw that it was a hoax. The hoax was done to see how gullible people were. Using simple tools, in this case binoculars, police saw balloons drifting along with road flares dangling beneath them. Other people said there was no smoke (naked eye observations). More evidence was "definitely not a plane". MUFON says that they tested road flares and than was an implausible explanation.

Here are 3 links that show how to see if people are gullible.

How We Staged the Morristown UFO Hoax, Part 1:...

How We Staged the Morristown UFO Hoax, Part 2:...

How We Staged the Morristown UFO Hoax, Part 3:...

[paigetheoracle]

Well this is like the Crop Circle hoaxers in the UK, who claimed to have carried out most of the UK's incidents in the eighties, I believe it was. They showed their crude method and were believed by the sceptics but not the believers. Looking at their methods, I doubt they created anything but the most simple designs. Do I believe the hoaxers here necessarily did what they did, 'when' they said they did either? What is the evidence, where are the independent witnesses to back their claim? Am I saying that they are lying? No, it's quite possible that they are telling the truth. What I am saying is that they were poorly organized in their attempt to prove that they did what they claimed they did, on the night in question. Like the hoaxed Loch Ness Surgeons photo, where little doubt exists that the perpetrator did what he did, we still have the fact that hoaxes are based on an original phenomena, so that specific incidents might be called into question but not the whole subject itself of UFO's, Crop Circles, Lake Monsters and Sea Serpents, Yeti etc.

[Moontanman]

Paige, crop circles are man made, all of them, every last one. Yes the two guys made mostly simple designs but there were literally hundreds of people who contributed to the crop circle craze. some of them have demonstrated how the most complex and outrageous circles were made. I have seen the films of these demonstrations. it was amazing how simple it was to make really fantastic designs. I don't think that crop circles are in any way shape or form evidence of any thing other than people's desire to fool others.

[Moontanman]

I have got to the point of finding it very difficult to believe anything when it come to UFOs. There is a hand full of very strange sightings with an embarrassment of evidence that cannot be explained by anything other than something really unusual but even that doesn't guarantee an alien space craft. One of the first astronauts has been interviewed where he said he saw a disk shaped craft land a US air base and he filmed it. The film was confiscated and never seen again. I have to believe this must have been some sort of secret US air craft and not a alien space craft (if it's true)

I have to say that the possibilities are dwindling fast.

1. What we think we know about how the universe works is so totally off base our science cannot possibly be even close to correct in it's description of the reality all around us.

2. There is an alien presence in our solar system, possibly a colony that doesn't require planets and is possibly using the resources in our solar system in some way beneficial to them.

3. They are time travelers, (see number one)

4. All UFOs are misidentified man made or natural phenomena or hoaxes

Would any one like to suggest another possibility?

[stereologist]

There are many amazing things on this planet of ours that are found every once in a while. It astonishes everyone when a new large mammal is found. It astonishes everyone when a living fossil is found. Sometimes mummies or remains of ancient humans are found by lay people. Comets certainly are found by amateurs. Fossils are found by individuals.

These are all examples of large things someone can find without the aid of special sophistocated equipment. With all of the eyes out there I'd expect to see something better. Maybe there are unexplained interesting phenomena going on. Maybe an amateur can figure out something interesting here without resorting to the claim of ETs, ghost, time travelers (like that idea Moontanman), or something supernatural.

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Paige, crop circles are man made, all of them, every last one. Yes the two guys made mostly simple designs but there were literally hundreds of people who contributed to the crop circle craze. some of them have demonstrated how the most complex and outrageous circles were made. I have seen the films of these demonstrations. it was amazing how simple it was to make really fantastic designs. I don't think that crop circles are in any way shape or form evidence of any thing other than people's desire to fool others.

You know this because....?

Doug and Dave claimed it but you obviously were God as you actually saw them all being made? This is an opinion backed up by what evidence? This is bias based on the wish not to investigate the phenomena further but that is your choice. I don't know what caused the crop circles because I wasn't there. This is the philosophical stance - I didn't witness something so I can only speculate, not know (personal experience is the only thing you can be sure of but even the senses can get it wrong - second hand news has to be doubted because you can't be sure what others saw or 'say' they saw (could have lied)). What I do know is that this phenomena may have occurred long before Doug and Dave were around. It occurred on another continent as well (Australia) and there it was called Mares Nests, if I remember rightly and formed in reed beds. As for these pictograms being a language - I see no evidence of this (artwork, yes - message/ language, no).

[Moontanman]

Just because i didn't see the truck that made the tracks in my driveway is no reason to assume it as an alien truck. If you want to believe crop circles are mysterious be my guest but I require some evidence and evidence is severely lacking in this case.

[stereologist]

So there wre copycats poking fun at people. The fun loving hoaxers would sneak up behind the ding dongs and their fancy equipment just to make a circle nearby where they weren't looking. Those guys must have had a ball jerking the chains of ding dongs.

BTW Paige no need to go on us with the difference between truth and knowledge. To fall on that argument is to tossin the towel on the original claim that crop circles are extraordinary.

[paigetheoracle]

Originally Posted by stereologist

So there wre copycats poking fun at people. The fun loving hoaxers would sneak up behind the ding dongs and their fancy equipment just to make a circle nearby where they weren't looking. Those guys must have had a ball jerking the chains of ding dongs.

BTW Paige no need to go on us with the difference between truth and knowledge. To fall on that argument is to tossin the towel on the original claim that crop circles are extraordinary.

The point I'm making is that they 'may' be. A scientist or philosopher worth their salt makes discoveries by coming into something with an open mind rather than a closed one (Okay, gullible and innocent versus guilty and sceptical but as they say the wisest man asks the stupidest question because false pride (fear of looking like an idiot) won't).

I still stand by the argument that you need something original to hoax.

[Moontanman]

Of course you do, the old legend of the Devil laying down crops in circles, none of which are described as complex designs or even perfect circles. It was a rare thing and cannot be compared to the modern version and might even have been people trying to hoax evidence of the devil back then. Saying that crop circles are evidence of UFOs is really stretching the idea of evidence beyond the breaking point.