Fourth dimension=time?

[Moontanman]

Penis, point, potato, potatoe ?

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

If you take it to be a dimension, I put it to you that time is the very first dimension, and not the fourth. If you lived in a one-dimensional world where only straight lines are possible, how would you even perceive it in the absence of time?

Possibly time exists independent of anything else?

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Possibly time exists independent of anything else?

I think that is pretty much it.

We place it in the 4th dimension (1st dimension ) because it works with the math. Otherwise, it would be a ludicrous concept, imho.

[arkain101]

Imagine you wake up inside a glass sphere.

You open your eyes and its black, everywhere, no lights no stars. A voice recording plays inside your sphere. A lady in a bit of a computer electronic voice begins and says:

"Welcome, Jonathan to your worst nightmare. You've been transported to a universe with nothing else in it. You are currently traveling 80% the speed of light, The time is now 6:30pm, Tuesday, august 15th. Your current course is forward. Your destination is the same as your starting location......but wait one minute Jonathan, maybe this is just a riddle..Maybe you are in our virtual reality program...it is up to you to find out where you really are and what is really happening, and if anything I have told you is even true. It could very well be possible that we are testing you, and that your only way out is to discover all the right answers. Good bye. Oh and Jonathan? Good Luck."

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by arkain101

Imagine you wake up inside a glass sphere.

You open your eyes and its black, everywhere, no lights no stars. A voice recording plays inside your sphere. A lady in a bit of a computer electronic voice begins and says:

"Welcome, Jonathan to your worst nightmare. You've been transported to a universe with nothing else in it. You are currently traveling 80% the speed of light, The time is now 6:30pm, Tuesday, august 15th. Your current course is forward. Your destination is the same as your starting location......but wait one minute Jonathan, maybe this is just a riddle..Maybe you are in our virtual reality program...it is up to you to find out where you really are and what is really happening, and if anything I have told you is even true. It could very well be possible that we are testing you, and that your only way out is to discover all the right answers. Good bye. Oh and Jonathan? Good Luck."

Well, that would certainly suck!

I assume you're trying to make the point that time is fictitious?

[arkain101]

Sometimes, I dont really know what I am doing..and that is the point! (like that story)

I find after studying and acquiring more knowlege and levels of understanding, it is a very insightful method to do a practice where I behave as though I know nothing, and examine things from the bottom up / the absolutely as basic as possible scenario, and find my way back towards my peak of understanding.

This type of review, I find, cleans out bugs in our understanding matrix network of sorts.

The post above is not intended to prove a point. It is a breaking down of concepts, and is intended as a practice for an individual to build on their foundations.

What a person gets out of such a practice, entirely depends on any kinks they have along the way, that get straightened out.

[Jayinater]

My view on time is that it is entirely derived from the movement of mass/energy through space. Time exists, much in the same way that ideas exist: ideas are not discrete entities of their own; they are from our neural connections in our brain. But they exist, nontheless.

[arkain101]

Sometimes, I dont really know what I am doing..and that is the point! (like that story)

I find after studying and acquiring more knowlege and levels of understanding, it is a very insightful method to do a practice where I behave as though I know nothing, and examine things from the bottom up / the absolutely as basic as possible scenario, and find my way back towards my peak of understanding.

This type of review, I find, cleans out bugs in our understanding matrix network of sorts.

The post above is not intended to prove a point. It is a breaking down of concepts, and is intended as a practice for an individual to build on their foundations.

What a person gets out of such a practice, entirely depends on any kinks they have along the way, that get straightened out.

This method if you will, was exactly the process I used in my cosmology thread.

I broke down cosmology to almost mind numbly stupid levels, and arrived at interesting conclusions. I did not intend to prove anything new, or explain anything that had not been explained. I simply shared this practice.

One of these conclusions which I thought was very interesting was where I arrived at a possible prediction quarks, which I equated as the most basic forms of interaction/reason.

Here is the total possible behaviors in a observation system. I noted that there appeared to be, as far as my knowledge goes,exactly the same number of quark combinations as there was possible different types of freedom interaction.

{frame A} = [frame B]

{ + => - } = [ - => 0 ] (deflection)
{ + => 0 } = [ 0 => + ] (deflection)
{ + => - } = [ - => - ] (bond)
{ + => 0 } = [ - => 0 ] (bond)
{ + => - } = [ 0 => - ] (false)

{ - => + } = [ + => 0 ] (deflection)
{ - => 0 } = [ 0 => - ] (deflection)
{ - => + } = [ + => + ] (bond)
{ - => 0 } = [ + => 0 ] (bond)
{ - => + } = [ 0 => + ] (false)

{ 0 => + } = [ + => 0 ] (deflection)
{ 0 => - } = [ - => 0 ] (deflection)
{ 0 => + } = [ + => + ] (bond)
{ 0 => - } = [ - => - ] (bond)
{ 0 => - } = [ 0 => 0 ] (false)
{ 0 => + } = [ 0 => 0 ] (false)

[arkain101]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Well, that would certainly suck!

I assume you're trying to make the point that time is fictitious?

The possibility occurred to me that maybe that whole scenario went right over your head and made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

The points there were to realize, everything the female voice told you was a lie, or more specifically unprovable. There is simply no ability to scientifically formulate those peices of information.
Key parts purposely added were:
-location
-velocity
-time
-direction
-motion

All of which are entirely undeterminable!

So I posed the question, is this reality put forward here a riddle? How can your build your way out of this hell hole, and find yourself back to earth? What peices of information to you need ? How many steps are there? And in which order must those steps go?

Hint. (to do the exercise as intended, use what the woman told you) then add an object in space, maybe earth.. OR do we add a clock!? first.. good luck.

[Pyrotex]

I think the bottom line here is that Time is not a "dimension" in any sense that the spacial dimensions are. However, we humans have found it "convenient" to consider Time as a pseudo-dimension, using various assumptions and math tricks in order to get the units to come out right and the geometry to come out right. With our shiny new "Space-Time Coordinate Systems" we can accomplish some pretty fantastic Science, and have massively increased our understanding of the Universe and Reality.

But we must not forget that the "Space-Time Coordinate Systems" we have constructed, are indeed, constructs. They do not "exist" in the same way that atoms and photons exist.

From our constructs, we obtain a facility with calculating Time, measuring Time, interpreting the effects of Time on matter and energy, interpreting the effects of matter and energy on Time --- BUT...

These constructs do NOT tell us what TIME ITSELF IS.

Time is non-material, non-energy, non-positional and non-"thingish". We have no power to access it or control it. It has no constituent parts, no texture, no measureable "substance" of any kind. It has no boundaries so that we can identify Time against a background of Not-Time. It is an invisible ghost that is always everywhere and never still.

Okay, so what is Time? I dunno. For the time being, it is a concept, a fabrication of mental/semantic structures and mathematical models.

And yet, Time would STILL be one of the core, foundational "attributes" of our Universe and Reality itself, even if we did not exist. There is this "attribute" that EXISTS independently of us and our understanding.

And "Time" is the name that we give -- NOT to the "attribute" itself, but to our experience of it. "Time" is the name we give to our experience of having "memories" of events and things and images that no longer exist.