Brain ''Wiring''

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by questor

Don't bother to try to overwhelm
me with posting articles with multi-syllabic words written by someone else and
bearing little relation to my theme.

Questor, we were, in general speaking in more general terms. YOU then asked people to carefully read the papers linked to and to post specific questions.
Infi then posted a very specific question which you now don't want to answer even though you said that was what you were looking for?

Let me check on something, because I am not sure I understand your position as well as I should.

Is your position that the genetic component to thought/opinions are 'hard wired' and can't be changed?

Please feel free to expand on your position as I think that might clarify a number of your statements.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Zythryn

Is your position that the genetic component to thought/opinions are 'hard wired' and can't be changed?

Sort of. My understanding of his position is that people tend to be oriented hemispherically in the way they think and process information. Some are left-brained in their orientation, some are right-brained. Left-brained people tend to be conservative because they are more rational. Right-brained people tend to be liberal because they are idealistic (It is this definition where individual bias is applied).

This is demonstrated by the fact that people receiving the same information obviously process that information in different ways based on their wiring, or hemishperic orientation, and since conservative left-brained people are more rational, they make better politicians and business executives. Generally, they are better leaders.

From this, he states in his first post (to which he keeps referring):

Originally Posted by questor

I have googled ''Left brain, Right brain''thinking and am aware that the brain halves seem to be specialized with the right brains artistic and idealistic, the left mathematical and more rational. It would seem that if the world's largest business is to be run properly you need to have a large portion of rationality with a seasoning of idealism. I can envision the time when all our politicians will have to have their brains scanned so as to fit the activity which they are supposed to perform.

It seems to me that it can be inferred from these notions that questor believes that people, or should I say left-brained people, are genetically predisposed to government and business leadership positions, and right-brained people should just stick to the arts and labor. Of course, he sees himself as left-brained. And, according to his post above, we may one day have laws that only allow people to perform certain jobs based on the results of some type of brain scan. It doesn't matter what you aspire to do.

Scary huh?

Is anyone reminded of the Dr. Seuss story of The Sneetches? We're supposed to learn these lessons as children so we don't become discriminatory as adults.

Obviously, not everyone is getting that type of education.

Feel free to correct me if I have misrepresented your position, questor.

[questor]

Reason, you did quite well until this:
''It seems to me that it can be inferred from these notions that questor believes that people, or should I say left-brained people, are genetically predisposed to government and business leadership positions, and right-brained people should just stick to the arts and labor. Of course, he sees himself as left-brained. And, according to his post above, we may one day have laws that only allow people to perform certain jobs based on the results of some type of brain scan. It doesn't matter what you aspire to do.''

Why not just say what you understand instead of trying to put words or ideas into something I didn't say? If you aspire to something, have a go at it.
You may not be good at it, but there is no ''law'' against it. We don't have ''laws'' concerning employment, but we have had aptitude tests for many years to help people find their niche. I do believe people who are rational, can understand what they read, understand business principles, and are capable of thinking ahead make better government leaders than those who have much difficulty with concepts. Why do you think you understood what I said quite easily, but others here can't get it?

[Ahmabeliever]

My words are too small, Infinite's words are too big.

Somewhere in the middle the porridge is just right.

I'll go now Questor, I invested a lot of energy here on listening to circular reasoning and blatant avoidance. But have come away with the theory that some left brain people are not capable of seeing the woods for the trees they plant themselves.

[HydrogenBond]

Just quoting studies, although good for offering argument support, does not always lead to the truth, since one merely uses the study that works. Based on that, sometimes one has to rely on common sense.

The nature of the basic differences, within the two hemisphere, is an area of science where everyone sort of agrees. The disagreement is the political connection. This would not be an easy experiment; monitoring brain activity in its natural political habitat. If there was a stigmatism for being right brained, one only has to think numbers and give a false reading.

Regardless of this difficulty, if we reverse engineer what we do agree on and describe the type of personality each hemisphere would create, if only one hemisphere was being used, hypothetically, the correlation does slant itself somewhat along political line. The Conservative, by its definition, is happy with the status quo and is not trying to be creative just for the sake of creativity. There has to be a logical reason such as making money. The Liberal is far more likely to see something wrong needing to be fixed or changed, offering themselves a creative outlet. There needs to be a cause. Sometimes the quick fixes of constant creativity makes more problems. But it also makes room for more creative solutions. The conservative likes the traditional family. Logically, if something has worked for thousands of years maybe it is worth doing. The Liberal tries to be more creative offering the possibility of alternative family, which may be in the dozens. This is not based on any value judgement, of right and wrong.

One can also reverse engineer long and short term memory. The place in life where long term memory often begins to dominate short term is old age. The person can remember what they worn on a particular day when they were 18, but can't find the keys or pay attention to drive. Under those conditions one becomes more structured by the past. If you put the key in the same place each time, one can forget it and still find it.

The other extreme is the small child. They are living in the moment mostly working with short term memory. They are not structured, yet, in the way of long term memory, but are free to move from toy to toy, seeing things for the first time. They are also more likely to use creative imagination as part of their play. This can be totally original to them.

If we compare parents, the Liberal parent is less likely to structure their children compared to the stricter ways of the Conservative parent. The average result is less long term memory programming while young, so they will stay more in the short term. For the conservative, the philosophy may be spare the rod and spoil the child. There is nothing like fear to generate long term memory. The Liberal thinks this is much too harsh and the child needs his own space to develop.

If you look at ADD and related disorders, the attention span is very short term, implicit of dominant short term memory. There is not enough long term memory to offer much in the way of internal resistance or structured will. The child will often need someone on the outside to provide the long term structure for them. The drugs help by moderating short term, but I am not sure if they help with long term.

[questor]

Hydrogen Bond---Well Said! Why didn't you write this earlier? I can't for the life of me understand such a long thread to cover what I said quite plainly in the opening post. Whichever hemisphere one uses and whatever their gender, age, or ehnicity, some people think more clearly, learn better, plan better and execute better. This is all due to the biochemistry or better ''brain
wiring''.

[InfiniteNow]

Wow... so basically all this time the only thing I needed to do for my feedback and the feedback of others to be classified as intelligent and useful was to agree with your position? Fascinating. You're right, that could have saved us all a lot of time had we known sooner.




STAFF:

The OP of this thread has shown a repeated unwillingness to discuss this issue scientifically and has failed after 18 pages to offer any evidence directly supporting his conjecture.

Please move this thread to the Strange Claims, as Alternative Theories is intended as a place for people to support and improve upon their non-mainstream, but otherwise scientific theories. The OP has offered no such support, willingness to support, nor understanding of the scientific method or recognition of the importance of supporting his positions with direct peer-reviewed citations.

You have already demonstrated a tremendous amount of patience, but after 18 pages this thread is now detrimental to the heart and spirit of the Alternative Theories forum.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by questor

Hydrogen Bond---Well Said! Why didn't you write this earlier? I can't for the life of me understand such a long thread to cover what I said quite plainly in the opening post. Whichever hemisphere one uses and whatever their gender, age, or ehnicity, some people think more clearly, learn better, plan better and execute better. This is all due to the biochemistry or better ''brain
wiring''.

WOW! You guys are just way better with better brain wiring.

If you even had a clue you'd realize that this need you have to demonstrate how much better you think you are only reveals the unfortunate depth of your insecurity and low self esteem.

Good luck.

[HydrogenBond]

I like to brain storm, looking at thing in many ways. Sometimes the answer is more complicated than one thing.

Overall, the mechanisms of memory are not completely understood. Brain areas such as the hippocampus, the amygdala, the striatum, or the mammillary bodies are thought to be involved in specific types of memory. For example, the hippocampus is believed to be involved in spatial learning and declarative learning, while the amygdala is thought to be involved in emotional memory.

Long-term memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is another possible angle. The Conservatives have a different ratio usage of hippocampus to amygdala, with more hippocampus. Conservatism is based on long term traditions, where enough time and repetition gives one a greater sense of perspective. This is not to say the perspective is perfect, but the longer one does anything the more spatially one is able to react to the environment. It is like learning a job, if you compare month one to year ten there is a difference.

The Liberal appears to have a greater amygdala to hippocampus ratio. This is connected to more emotional learning. Save the whale is more of a community warm fuzzy to make everyone feel good. It is not a cold rational event based on practical thinking. It is a warm community event.

The Liberals will often stereo-type the Conservatives as cold and heartless unconcerned for the poor. Or they don't use enough amygdala for the emotional learning needed to make this warm connection. The Conservative may stereo-type the Liberal as a tree hugger. To them cause and affect seems off, treating the tree like a person. In the warmth of their irrational emotions it becomes a friend. Not enough hippocampus to see it is wood ready for to be manufactured for a house.

Emotional thinking is different than rational thinking, although both use logic and emotions. The difference is which comes first, the logic or the emotion. Once it is in motion it is not easy to tell the difference.

For example, I go into a cave and start to explore. I notice there are cracks in the ceiling and it looks like there is a danger. Based on this reasoning, I get scared and leave the cave. The next person, is afraid of caves, even before they enter. The emotion is already active without real input data or rational pre-assessment. Without even collecting data their imagination begins to generate rational scenarios. When the two run out of the cave looking scared, one may be hard pressed to see any difference. Both are afraid and both may even present reasons for why they are afraid. The first person may use the one two punch of hippocampus-amygdala. The second person may be using the one two punch amygdala-hippocampus.

According to the psychology of Jung, he said they humans have four orientating factors, with most humans specializing in one. One can orientate themselves to reality with intellect, emotions, intuitions or direct sensory interaction. Based on the intellect, doing X is good for little Joe. But based on emotions, maybe little Joe is not ready, today. This may not appear rational to the intellect, but it still follows emotional cause and affect, with Joe's mood today not good for learning.

This emotional orientation and ability to pick up even the most subtle emotional cues, requires the amygdala. Without it we may not sense little Joe doesn't like to play ball. He is different. But if emotion leads reason, each emotion can create its own different line of reason. For example, if someone is angry with the system they may reason the need for doing something harsh. If someone is sympathetic to the complexities of change, they may reason the need to go slow. The pure intellect beginning without emotion tries to look at the reality of cause and affect. But if change is too fast they get disoriented and also starts to think emotionally. If the amygdala is not as well developed the emotions are crude or the emotional reaction becomes narrowed down. Reasons becomes linear.

[questor]

Before my free speech is curtailed by the powers that be, I would like to make a couple of observations:
1. All answers to biochemical and neural activity are not known, therefore there are no links to give on research not yet done.
2. The research that has been done admits that neural activity has a biochemical and perhaps a genetic basis.
The Biological Basis of Memory: Neural Activity Leaves Biochemical Traces
3. As the numerous posts about this subject clearly show, different people
can view the same data and arrive at opposing conclusions. Some indeed, never do arrive at the specific point.
4. Since this difference should be obvious, it should also be obvious that ''brain wiring'' is different in different people.
5. Research on hemispheric differences have shown specific patterns of brain
function peculiar to the different sides.
Funderstanding - Right Brain vs. Left Brain
Right Brain Left Brain Inventory
6. If one accepts this research as valid, these differences could be used to help determine one's aptitude for a particular job or profession. For President
of the U.S.A. for example, I would like to have a non-dreamer, good executive, rational, person able to make good long range decisions. The following characteristics would not be desirable:
1. • Intuitive, led by feelings
2. • Organisation tends to be lacking
3. • No sense of time
4. • Trouble prioritising, so often late, impulsive
5. • Unlikely to read instruction manual before trying
6. • Listen to how something is being said, rather than what is being said.

1.--6. is taken from Right Brain Left Brain Inventory

Hemispheric differences may not explain the difference in the ability to think clearly or the difference in political persuasion, but certainly there are obvious differences and we know that thought is biochemical at its base.