Behind the War on terror - Saudi Babylon

[LaurieAG]

I have been reading the book 'Saudi Babylon' by Mark Hollingworth with Sandy Mitchell and I find it very disturbing and difficult reading, particularly the amount of detail.

'I would have confessed to anything' | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

It makes me ask "Just what are the 'lowest' common denominators of those involved in the War on Terror"?

There are 3 major key links that bind all of the political leaders involved:-

(1) Corruption, especially with regards to military expenditure and 'rebuilding'.
(2) Torture, or a lack of reluctance to send people to countries that torture.
(3) Constitutional and democratic abuses.

This all leads me to ask 'Is the War on Terror a front for Crony Capitalism masquerading as 'globalism''?

[orbsycli]

it appears so

[Buffy]

I think they're related up to the last point which is so much more complicated.

The right wing in the US is bifurcated between the rich who do like limits on trade barriers (at least where its advantageous to them!) and the vast majority of conservatives who are basically isolationists (see Patrick Buchannan, Ross Perot, etc.) who at the more extreme are out there looking for black helicopters and expecting to vanquish "One-World Government."

Why this latter group keeps thinking that GWBush is the messiah, I don't think I'll ever figure out: his daddy's on the Trilateral Commission, and even GW wants to open the borders to keep labor suppressed, and of course anything to do with giving his oil buddies a free ride is just peachy!

Now as I said, support for globalism is limited even among the rich, witness the Farm Bill, which is billed as supporting "family farmers" when 90% of farming in the US is done by gigantic conglomerates who really don't need the subsidies, but if it fattens their bottom line and they can scream down any opponents as "hating god-fearing, hard-working, flag-waving farmers" they'll do it. And don't you dare talk about putting limits on those subsidies to Big-Agra, because that would be "unfair" and "un-American."

The problem with this is that other countries see this, see hypocracy and retaliate, which works *against* globalism.

Personally I see a big swing back to good ol' Populism, and while Mr. Gore still walks around like he's got a long pointy object in his posterior, he's still a latter day Upton Sinclair. And take a look at Lou Dobbs, CNN muckraker who's being pinned as an anti-immigrant conservative (his wife is Mexican!), when he's actually a raving-looney populist/internationalist.

Just a small warning: Doomsayers are usually wrong. Assuming there are no countervailing forces is dangerous, and is kind of offensive when you think about it. Do you really want to assume that everyone is stupider than you and go out and yell it at the top of your lungs?

It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls,
Buffy

[LaurieAG]

Hi Buffy,

Originally Posted by Buffy

Now as I said, support for globalism is limited even among the rich, witness the Farm Bill, which is billed as supporting "family farmers" when 90% of farming in the US is done by gigantic conglomerates who really don't need the subsidies, but if it fattens their bottom line and they can scream down any opponents as "hating god-fearing, hard-working, flag-waving farmers" they'll do it. And don't you dare talk about putting limits on those subsidies to Big-Agra, because that would be "unfair" and "un-American."

But the majority of politicians support the minority view, and thats what really counts.

Originally Posted by Buffy

The problem with this is that other countries see this, see hypocracy and retaliate, which works *against* globalism.

Right on.

Originally Posted by Buffy

Personally I see a big swing back to good ol' Populism, and while Mr. Gore still walks around like he's got a long pointy object in his posterior, he's still a latter day Upton Sinclair. And take a look at Lou Dobbs, CNN muckraker who's being pinned as an anti-immigrant conservative (his wife is Mexican!), when he's actually a raving-looney populist/internationalist.

And protectionism, the pendulum swings?

Originally Posted by Buffy

Just a small warning: Doomsayers are usually wrong. Assuming there are no countervailing forces is dangerous, and is kind of offensive when you think about it. Do you really want to assume that everyone is stupider than you and go out and yell it at the top of your lungs?

If the alternative 'view' of the countervailing force is to invade Iran then it isn't really an alternative or even countervailing for that matter.

Have your politicians used 'CORE and NON CORE' political promises yet?

[LaurieAG]

Hi Buffy,

Originally Posted by Buffy

Just a small warning: Doomsayers are usually wrong. Assuming there are no countervailing forces is dangerous, and is kind of offensive when you think about it. Do you really want to assume that everyone is stupider than you and go out and yell it at the top of your lungs?

Here's the latest from Saudi Arabia from the Jerusalem Post Saudi court sentences rape victim to 90 lashes | Jerusalem Post.

"Gang Rape victim to be lashed"

A Saudi court has sentenced a gang rape victim to 90 lashes of the whip because she was alone in a car with a man to whom she was not married.

The sentence was passed at the end of a trial in which the al- Qateef high criminal court convicted four Saudis convicted of the rape, sentencing them to prison terms and a total of 2,230 lashes.

The four, all married, were sentenced respectively to five years and 1,000 lashes, four years and 800 lashes, four years and 350 lashes, and one year and 80 lashes.

A fifth, married, man who was stated to have filmed the rape on his mobile phone still faces investigation. Two others alleged to have taken part in the rape evaded capture.

Saudi courts take marital status into account in sexual crimes. A male friend of the rape victim was also sentenced to 90 lashes for being alone with her in the car.

The court heard that the victim and her friend were followed by the assailants to their car, kidnapped and taken to a remote farm, where the raping occurred.

The victim was quoted by Okaz newspaper as saying she had expected harsher penalties for the assailants, especially as they had pleaded not guilty.

Her husband and family said that they would appeal to the court Saturday for harsher penalties for a crime which has shocked public opinion in Saudi Arabia and been the subject of months of debate.

Originally Posted by Buffy

It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls

You said it.

[Racoon]

Wahhabism

Wahhabism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Freddy]

Sharia Law is religious law from Islam. It can be harsh! From Wikipedia:

"Saudi Arabia and Iran maintain religious courts for all aspects of jurisprudence, and religious police assert social compliance. Laws derived from sharia are also applied in Afghanistan, Libya and Sudan."

"...stoning to death is the penalty for married men and women who commit adultery..."

[InfiniteNow]

The war on terror is like the war on drugs. It is not truly a war, and it is not truly effective. The people are tired of war. The soldiers are tired of dying. Yet we keep rattling hornets nest after hornets nest.

Our civilization is evolving more quickly than our biology. I sometimes wonder what it will take to realign the two, but then quickly turn from those thoughts due to their extreme apocolyptic nature.


And stop blaming people, countries, religions, and civilizations. It only excaserbates the issues we are facing. Put your focus on solutions and what you can do to maximize peace, survival, and the survival of peace itself.




Buffy - A quick nod to you in recognition of your point regarding Gore and the Jungle. Thanks for the informed perspective you continue to share and articulate.



The fight for resources is in full swing, and those that cooperate will ultimately win.

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

1)The war on terror is like the war on drugs. It is not truly a war, and it is not truly effective.

2) And stop blaming people, countries, religions, and civilizations. It only excaserbates the issues we are facing. Put your focus on solutions and what you can do to maximize peace, survival, and the survival of peace itself.

1) Thats agreed upon.. The war on drugs is a total failure.. so is the war on poverty.

2) Then who do You place the blame upon!?
Its the peoples w/ religions, in their countries that cause these problems... In case you haven't noticed..

If you can't blame the problem, on somebody or something, then how can you make a change to fix it???

[InfiniteNow]

I said:

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

And stop blaming people, countries, religions, and civilizations. It only excaserbates the issues we are facing. Put your focus on solutions and what you can do to maximize peace, survival, and the survival of peace itself.

Then you responded:

Originally Posted by Racoon

2) Then who do You place the blame upon!?

Does this answer your post, or shall I write it a third time?