Egyptians in America‽

[modest]

Originally Posted by Turtle

I saw the Hopi mentioned somewhere; shall we start with them?

Sure, the Navajo have roots in Arizona also (I believe). I think we should be able to (at the very least) put an upper date on any new arrivals before Columbus. If we could say there was no significant outside interaction after a certain date that might be helpful. From what I remember of reading about the genetics population project there were three?? periods of addition to the gene pool in native Americans. They call them new migrations - but I suppose trade would leave the same genetic imprint.

Originally Posted by Turtle

On page 162 of this link, a fella named Childress says he found documents verifying Jordon as a Smithsonian associate. >>The Land of Osiris - Google Book Search

That is a very good find and very interesting to boot. Not only did Mahler say he found a "Jordan" but "S.A. Jordan" listed as a field archaeologist. If what Mahler says is true then that could have a change on the landscape.

He also says there were 2 front-page articles. It would be nice to see the other one.

-modest

[Cedars]

Just because....

How about a play on words here.

Smith... Mormons...

Maybe your looking for/towards the wrong smithsonians?

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Cedars

Just because....

How about a play on words here.

Smith... Mormons...

Maybe your looking for/towards the wrong smithsonians?

Maybe. At the very least, all those geneological records the Mormans so assiduously keep may hold some information as to the identity of Kinkaid.

On to the Egyptian connection with America! Specifically , the copper they got from the Phoenicians. Here's a very tanatalizing bit of script: >> Page 26 (sorry; I can't seem to find a way to copy & paste the text. )
The Incredible Bronze Age Journey - Google Book Search

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Maybe. At the very least, all those geneological records the Mormans so assiduously keep may hold some information as to the identity of Kinkaid.

On to the Egyptian connection with America! Specifically , the copper they got from the Phoenicians. Here's a very tanatalizing bit of script: >> Page 26 (sorry; I can't seem to find a way to copy & paste the text. )
The Incredible Bronze Age Journey - Google Book Search

Yes you may be able to find Kinkaid.

Additionally it would be very unusual for that time period, for at least some of the booty to be hauled out. Dire warnings about trespass and government land?

But heres some references to indian similarities to mid-eastern peoples.
Where Did Joseph Smith Get His Ideas for the Book of Mormon?

My reference to mormons and smithsonians was tongue in cheek. Carpetbaggers and tall tales. Traveling side shows and snake oil salesmen.

But to carry on with the topic:

The Location of the Kincaid's "Cave" Revealed

"map" and "El Tovar Crystal canyon" - Google Search

[modest]

Do we have a record of Prof. Jordan's existence? I know Stephen Mahler's book claims to, but it doesn't elaborate. Oh, wait, it does a bit..

In the Denver Museum, I was able to locate back copies of the Smithsonian’s annual reports. I did not find the year 1909, but in the 1911 report, the name S.A. Jordan was listed as a field archaeologist for the Smithsonian Institute.

Land of Osiris

But who exactly is Stephen Mahler? Is The Land of Osiris the only book he's written? I think it is. His claim about finding info on Jordan doesn't seem verifiable, and it looks like he's the only one that's made that claim.

I just searched ancestry.com's 1910 census records for "S* A* Jordan" born 1850-1875 with occupation as geologist, professor, educator, etc. unsuccessfully

-modest

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by modest

Do we have a record of Prof. Jordan's existence? I know Stephen Mahler's book claims to, but it doesn't elaborate. Oh, wait, it does a bit..


Land of Osiris

But who exactly is Stephen Mahler? Is The Land of Osiris the only book he's written? I think it is. His claim about finding info on Jordan doesn't seem verifiable, and it looks like he's the only one that's made that claim.

I just searched ancestry.com's 1910 census records for "S* A* Jordan" born 1850-1875 with occupation as geologist, professor, educator, etc. unsuccessfully

-modest

Try Jordon; I recall Mahler or some other source mentioning this find, saying they found it spelled with 2 o's, no 'a'.

What do you make of the Phoenician ingots in Michigan angle? ....

[modest]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Try Jordon; I recall Mahler or some other source mentioning this find, saying they found it spelled with 2 o's, no 'a'.

Good idea but no luck. Closest was a farmer born in 1873 - sure would help if we had his whole name.

Originally Posted by Turtle

What do you make of the Phoenician ingots in Michigan angle? ....

I'm a'readin'

-modest

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by modest

Good idea but no luck. Closest was a farmer born in 1873 - sure would help if we had his whole name.



I'm a'readin'

-modest

Roger. No hurry. Might be the guy wasn't even from the US. I'm on it like brown on a raisin.

[modest]

I don't know Turtle,

The site you link gets the imagination going especially with this:

Archaeologists have found Michian copper in artifacts around the world. Scientists agree that they date back thousands of years before Christ.

and other sites and books report the same (i.e. Betty Sodders' book). But I can't find a scientific study claiming the same. Maybe it's my inadequate searching skills. It would be very, very compelling evidence to have artifacts in the ancient middle east that have trace characteristics of the great lakes. The implications of that would be pretty much irrefutable. People claim such evidence exists - can anyone else find it?

-modest

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by modest

I don't know Turtle,

The site you link gets the imagination going especially with this:



and other sites and books report the same (i.e. Betty Sodders' book). But I can't find a scientific study claiming the same. Maybe it's my inadequate searching skills. It would be very, very compelling evidence to have artifacts in the ancient middle east that have trace characteristics of the great lakes. The implications of that would be pretty much irrefutable. People claim such evidence exists - can anyone else find it?

-modest

OK This one is a bit bass ackwards, as it has zinc alloys of copper from the Mediterranean, but found in America. Possibly the copper was mined in America, shipped to Mediterranean, made into tools, then made their way back with consequent voyages. Off to look some more......

http://www.trends.net/~yuku/tran/a3.htm

And here's some more evidence. This is what Gunnar Thompson writes in
his AMERICAN DISCOVERY, Seattle, 1994, on p. 148,

"Recent assays reveal that some of the copper artefacts found in N
American burial mounds were made from zinc-copper alloys used in the
Mediterranean [the endnote here cites Scripps Howard News Service story
of March 27, 1991]. Ancient metal crafters added zinc to harden copper
into a bronze alloy. The shapes of the copper tools found in American
archaeological sites are identical to those of the ancient
Mediterranean, including chisels, dagger blades, wedges, hoes, scythes,
axes and spear points. These tools often have specific modifications,
including the use of rivets, spines and sockets, all of which were
characteristic of Mediterranean tools."

PS Something on the gentics side.

Ancient America

Archaeologists are just beginning to realize that to understand European prehistory, American prehistory must also be considered. The Solutreans of Spain are now believed to have crossed the Atlantic using the southern Equatorial current and entered the Caribbean and Central America between 18,000 and 12,000 years ago to become known as the Clovis hunters of America. Recent genetic findings suggest that the people now known as Gaelic speaking Celts (including Irish, Welsh, Scots, Basques and Berbers) are a remnant of a group of people who also left Spain between 1,8000 and 12,000 years ago and spent 6,000 years isolated from Europe before returning, bringing the Megalithic culture to coastal Europe.

Geneticist Prof Steve Jones, who recently published a book called Y - The Descent of Man, said;

"Genetics provided more reliable clues to the distant past than language did". He and colleagues at University College, London, have spent years creating a genetic map of the Y chromosome, which is passed by males from generation to generation. The results show that the Welsh are related to the Basques of northern Spain and southern France and to native Americans. He said: "There has been much less interbreeding in Wales than you might expect. Wales and Ireland have the most homogenous group of males of anywhere in the world, from the research that's been done so far".

He said; "The Y chromosome common among Welsh males was an ancient one. Most native Americans have the same one. Surprisingly perhaps, the genetics show that the Welsh are not related to the Cornish, despite the similarity of their languages. The Cornish are in effect Anglo-Saxons who for a time used a language that was hanging around. The genes of Scottish males betrayed considerable inter-mixing with outsiders".
...
...Barry Fell, author of 'America B.C.' is an accomplished decipherer of ancient scripts and has managed to identify a great deal of Celtic, Phoenician, Iberian, Egyptian, Berber, Libyan and Viking scripts in America, indicating that a great deal of trade contact occurred during and after the Bronze Age, but ceasing around the time of the beginning of the Roman Empire. ...

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