What is the Future of America?

[questor]

Zythryn, you want the flat tax and the close family. Do you think we could accomplish that without absorbing several million new immigrants? As far as education, 50 years ago, America was the envy of the world with its educational system, manufacturing system, and technical expertise, now we are falling behind in all these categories... why do you think that is happening?
This is your world and you'll have to live in it. Health care is skyrocketing in cost, social security is running out, universities are overcrowded and prohibitedly expensive. How do you think 10-20 million more immigrants are going to help you?

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by questor

Thunderbird, are these your neighbors? Thanks for a good laugh. Are you saying you want more immigrants so you can eat ethnic food and dance to some good salsa music?

No that's a picture I found on the internet to make a point about American culture. I think cultural diversity is more than just food and dance, its about complexity as opposed to homogeneity.

You were eluding that one culture may be superior to another. Apples and oranges.

[questor]

zythryn, your quote...
''Many I would say that the United States society improved immensly by taking in many Norwegian and Irish. The hard work ethic of the Norwegians helped Minnesota immensly. And I feel the society is much 'richer' for the addition of a variety of people with different backgrounds.''
When did these people come to the US? How did their culture differ from those already here? Did these people readily assimilate with the others?
your quote...'' I also believe we need to allow many more legal immigrants''
How many more would please you? How will these people enrich our society to make it better? They will drive on our decaying bridges, drink our dwindling water, use our expensive health care system, bring some of their criminal gangs and drug culture with them. What exactly, do we get in return?
Please be specific about the benefits, I don't think ethnic food and a little dancing is a very good trade.

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by questor

Zythryn, you want the flat tax and the close family. Do you think we could accomplish that without absorbing several million new immigrants?

I think that would be possible. Why is one way of accomplishing it better than another?

Originally Posted by questor

As far as education, 50 years ago, America was the envy of the world with its educational system, manufacturing system, and technical expertise, now we are falling behind in all these categories... why do you think that is happening?

That is an excellent question. I would guess it is due to the fanatical Christian Right and their war against science. However there are lots of possible reasons.
I gather from your posts that you feel it is due to immigrants? If so, might I suggest comparing geographical areas where education has suffered over the last 50 years with the influx into those areas of immigrants. See if there is any correlation.

Originally Posted by questor

This is your world and you'll have to live in it. Health care is skyrocketing in cost, social security is running out, universities are overcrowded and prohibitedly expensive. How do you think 10-20 million more immigrants are going to help you?

Hmmm, good point I do have to live in it. I don't feel that the things you mention have happened soley, if at all, because of immigration. I especially don't understand your mentioning overcrowding at universities. First, do you feel there is overcrowding at universities? I haven't heard of this. Second, are you saying that these poorly educated immigrants are going to college? If so, that seems to be a good thing as they can then contribute more to our society.

As for the how 10-20 million more immigrants are going to help me??? Well, at the very least they are going to pay into our SS system and help it last a bit longer

[questor]

T'bird, do you think that with all the religions and cultures now in the US we are all one big, happy family? Do you think that adding a few million more will smooth things out? Do you think a society is better if every one has similar cultural traits or if everyone is different?

[questor]

Zythryn, I don't think the fanatic Christian right has any influence on our educational system as a whole. The NEA actually seeems to be more in bed with the democrats.
No, I definitely do not blame all our troubles on immigrants, but immigrants
from all over the globe are trying to get on a very crowded bus. The real danger comes from those who do not understand what this will cause to themselves.

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by questor

When did these people come to the US?

Isn't that irrelavent? Why does it matter when?
I believe the largest influx was in the early to mid 1800s.

Originally Posted by questor

How did their culture differ from those already here? Did these people readily assimilate with the others?

You are joking, right? How much detail would you like?
And no, many had great difficulty assimilating into the local culture. Many never learned to speak english. We have a number of cities in Minnesota that were founded by immigrants from Norway and Germany that to this day have parades celebrating their original heritage.

Originally Posted by questor

How many more [immigrants] would please you?

Not me, I am not looking for more immigrants for my own 'pleasure'. Instead I am looking for immigrants that wish to come to work, learn and enrich our own culture. Basically contributors to our society.

Originally Posted by questor

How will these people enrich our society to make it better?

In the same way any natural born citizen will. Each according to their own strengths.

Originally Posted by questor

They will drive on our decaying bridges, drink our dwindling water, use our expensive health care system, bring some of their criminal gangs and drug culture with them. What exactly, do we get in return?
Please be specific about the benefits, I don't think ethnic food and a little dancing is a very good trade.

You could say the same thing about Greeks, or men, or women, or retirees. Everyone drives on our decaying bridges, drink our water, use our health care, etc.. What exactly do we get in return when any of these people use the resources of our society?

Questor, what exactly is your point? You keep asking questions. What is your position?
Do you have any data to back up any of your statements. Or is this simply a rant?

[questor]

Here is my point. I think we have enough people in this country. We do not have infinite resouces to feed the world. We do not have enough money to take care of the world's sick and hungry. We are on the verge of becoming a second rate country and we cannot cure our problems by letting more poorly educated and poorly trained people pour across our borders. Just because we have had immigration in the past is no reason to have it now. Times and fortunes have changed. Let people make their own country prosperous, let them fight their wars at home, let them take care of their own, we have been doing it far too long and have received no thanks or cooperation. Do you have time to read up on current events?

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by questor

T'bird, do you think that with all the religions and cultures now in the US we are all one big, happy family? Do you think that adding a few million more will smooth things out? Do you think a society is better if every one has similar cultural traits or if everyone is different?

What I think about is what I can contribute, how I can smooth things out. How can I make society better. Everyone is different, and also have common traits. This complexity is the driver of society.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by questor

Here is my point. I think we have enough people in this country. We do not have infinite resouces to feed the world. We do not have enough money to take care of the world's sick and hungry. We are on the verge of becoming a second rate country and we cannot cure our problems by letting more poorly educated and poorly trained people pour across our borders. Just because we have had immigration in the past is no reason to have it now. Times and fortunes have changed. Let people make their own country prosperous, let them fight their wars at home, let them take care of their own, we have been doing it far too long and have received no thanks or cooperation. Do you have time to read up on current events?

Try studying history, isolationism and paranoia are the precursor of the fall of society. It is a signal of internal decay. Would like to build a wall? Study the great wall of china or Germany. The inside of these wall were in decay, not by invasion mind you but the misguided idea of land belonging to the present deserving generation. You only have what you have because of other’s toil. Again I ask what are you contributing to future generations.

Healing society is an inside job. I say step up. or shut up about someone invading “your” territory I have native American / Jewish/ welsh/ French/ and German ancestry. What part of my ancestry is the part that does not belong to America.