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Old 10-08-2005   #1 (permalink)
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Universe as a Living Entity?

It has energy, elements, water, systems, it's growing... What are the chances that the universe is a living entity and may even have a conciousness of its own? Just a fun thought
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Old 10-09-2005   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Universe as a Living Entity?

Fun question but wrong forum...moving this to the cosmology forum.


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Old 10-09-2005   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Universe as a Living Entity?

The Gaia-theory, inflated by several orders of magnitude...!


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Old 10-09-2005   #4 (permalink)
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Alive now? I think not. Alive someday? I think maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EWright
… What are the chances that the universe is a living entity and may even have a conciousness of its own?
Not very good, I think.

Problems of a rigorous definition of “consciousness” aside (and there are huge problems with this, spanning half a century of modern mathematical formalism alone), if the human brain is any guide, the universe has serious connection problems with signal speed. The time it takes a signal to traverse an astronomical structure, such as a galaxy, is measure in tens of thousands of years, while the apparent age of the universe, even according to unconventional theories, is only tens of billions of years, so, at most, theses structures could have had only a few million “thoughts”, not nearly enough by human standards.

The chance that the universe may, in the very distant future, become conscious, is significantly better. Many 20th century scientists have harbored private, religious-like beliefs that the purpose of the universe is to become conscious, in a way analogous to how successively larger biological organism have evolved on earth. Eugene Wigner is rumored to have spoken seriously along these lines, and Frank Tippler has written a (long and somewhat bizarre, even for Frank Tippler) book expounding of it, under the name “omega point theory”, titled “The Physics of Imortality”.
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Old 10-10-2005   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Universe as a Living Entity?

Hmmm... connection speed, interesting.

Obvious, in hindsight, but interesting, nonetheless.

Imagine:

In the beginning, God created the world. Fifteen billion years later, the Universe says (in a loud, slow, booming voice): "What the hell was that?!"


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Old 10-10-2005   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Universe as a Living Entity?

Here is a crazy thought. What if WE are the seeds for the future Universe's consciousness?

After all, even the most optimistic of us, know just how incredibly long the odds were that humanity would pop up precisely at this moment in the Universe's history when it appears on the cusp of transition to a dark energy influenced driven spatial inflation as the primary driver in the universe.

I know we are a statistical fluke, but it seems kind of odd that we haven't had a violation of the Neils Bohr observation, that if there were intelligent life ahead of us in the que; they would have at least checked up on us to see what foolishness we were planning....

How Anthropic Principle can you get?

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Old 10-10-2005   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Universe as a Living Entity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damocles
Here is a crazy thought. What if WE are the seeds for the future Universe's consciousness?
That reminds me of a short story by Arthur C. Clarke.



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Old 10-10-2005   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Universe as a Living Entity?

Quote:
What are the chances that the universe is a living entity and may even have a conciousness of its own?
Exactly zero. Compare its visible size to the maximum speed at which information can propagate - lightspeed. Did you ever pith a frog?


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Old 10-10-2005   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Universe as a Living Entity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damocles
Here is a crazy thought. What if WE are the seeds for the future Universe's consciousness?
Your crazy thought summarizes Tippler and others “omega point” theories exactly, assuming we go on to technological greatness and cultural near-immortality, rather than just dieing out without amounting to much. Where they get complicated enough to justify whole books is in speculation how this is to happen.

An even crazier thought, which has appeared at scienceforums at least once before, is that this consiciousness is responsible for initiating the process that lead to its emergence (eg: the Big Bang), via something like crazy, god-like end-of-time time travel.
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Old 10-10-2005   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Universe as a Living Entity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EWright
It has energy, elements, water, systems, it's growing... What are the chances that the universe is a living entity and may even have a conciousness of its own? Just a fun thought
It can't reproduce, there's no known mechanism for thought processes to occur, it cannot adjust to changing conditions (because it itself is all there is). Therefore it can't fall under any half-decent definition of life.
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