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Old 12-21-2005   #1 (permalink)
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Moments and events

So this is my first post. Have been watching in the shadows for some time now, and have really enjoyed listening (reading) the discourse. Thanks to each of you for your thoughts. I still have a rep power of zero, and am comfortable with that. I plan to read and think more than comment and answer, but it seemed right to ask a question/make a comment today.

It's always right now. Of this I feel certain. What gets me snagged is this discontinuity that comes with "nowness." The "right now" typed moments ago is somehow distinct from all other nows (for example, you reading this thread... a different now), yet somehow also the same.

Although interested in each of these, I am neither mathametican nor physicist, philisopher nor religious guru, (perhaps a presentist according to wikipedia) but am certainly a curious individual who likes to hear and listen to the views of others in each of these sects. I learn more about myself by "pinging" ideas off of others and listening for what comes back... like they do on submarines with sound.

I really don't entertain the possibility of answering a question such as this, but do appreciate the entertainment of trying. I'd love to hear any one else's thoughts, comments, or explanations of the present.

Cheers, and thanks again for sharing.
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Old 12-21-2005   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

Welcome to Hypography, InfiniteNow!

I am not sure this question belongs here - it is more a philosophical question, although it is related to cosmology in the sense of continuum theories.

The sense of the flow of time is a mystery. We have no "real" explanation as to what time is. All human experience tells us that time moves from the past towards the future in a relatively straight path (ie, even flow) but it is very hard to prove that it is so.

Good question for a first post. I frankly don't have any good answers to this.


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Old 12-21-2005   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

Like Tormod, I think that was an excellent first post InfiniteNow. Defining time is a difficult task, I doubt we'll have any really good answers any time soon. BTW, welcome to Hypography.........enjoy


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Old 12-21-2005   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

InfiniteNow:
Quote:
It's always right now.
lol. And we take it for granted. At least the younger people do. I know I did. Youth has an infinite number of 'right nows' ahead of them. As we get really old like me 'right now' will fold into yesterday faster and faster. And those wonderful moments will become a thing of memory only. And someday, well..
I think I'll go fix a leaky faucet. That is a series of 'nows' I know how to deal with.
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Old 12-21-2005   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

Actually, I was just thinking about the title to this thread and realized that an event or a moment is strictly, only a portion of the discription for time. To rationalize the thought of time, one must imagine the passing from one event into another. There are a few quantum physicists that believe that there exists a finite measure for the moment of time. A smallest capsule of time if you will. Ofcourse this theory has not been proven as yet, but it does cause one to ponder the mystries that lie before us in the field of physics..................Infy


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Last edited by infamous; 12-21-2005 at 02:14 PM..
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Old 12-21-2005   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniteNow
It's always right now. Of this I feel certain. What gets me snagged is this discontinuity that comes with "nowness." The "right now" typed moments ago is somehow distinct from all other nows (for example, you reading this thread... a different now), yet somehow also the same.
I have found this idea to be very prevalent in eastern vedantic spirituality, especially Buddhism. Also, Eckhart Tolle deals with it very effectively, although he draws heavily on these eastern ideas and terminology. You can find his "Power of Now" books everywhere. You can buy (or download) the audiobook versions, read by the author, which are very good as well. Have fun!
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Old 12-21-2005   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

Infinite, if you have ever seen a waveform on a scope it displays the input event with respect to time. if you pick some spot at the top of the scope CRT and draw a line straight down to the bottom, the line will intersect an input event that occurred at that time. Time is an invention of man that is used as an address to tell us where an event occurred in time.
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Old 12-22-2005   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

Thanks to each of you for your welcome and replies. I am not sure if this is the ideal option, but I will respond to each here.

Tormod: I find myself most often visiting threads in Astronomy & Cosmology, that's probably part of the reason it's posted here. Most of us are philisophers in some sense of the word, but not all can speak to the issues of Thermodynamics, Entropy, and arrow of time like the folks here can (referencing the continuum/flow concepts you raised). With hope, others will see the post here and respond with their opinion and insight from whichever branch of science in which they live.

Infamous: You mentioned the passing from one event to the other. That's exactly the discontinuity to which I referred. Strangely connected yet somehow parsed. As for the smallest possible measure or unit of time... things that make you go hmmm, indeed. Right now is perhaps that smallest unit, but in it's tinyness it is also so vast and all encompassing. Like a dog chasing it's own tail sometimes... I swear.

ldsoftwaresteve: Perhaps the faucet wouldn't leak if there were no time... or maybe it's that there is no time (in the abstract sense) while we are fixing the leak. Who knows, but thanks for the cheer you exhibited in your response. I am not so sure about the "drop in the bucket" concept... what's dropping? in what medium does it drop? what the heck is the bucket a metaphor of? Oyy...

jkellmd: I have done a substantial amount of reading into Buddhism as well. What is at the fore of my current thinking with this is how closely these ancient buddhist texts parallel the 20th century writings about quantum mechanics. The whole thing about not being able to observe a system without changing it, particle/wave complimentary... it's neat stuff. Thanks for the suggestion on the book.

Little Bang: Thanks for the visual. The whole "invention of man" statement you made applies to so much... What strikes me as most difficult is how definitions of time tend so often to be self-referencing. The waveform idea (the scope visual) reminded me of some interesting work on collapsing waveforms and probability functions. Advances in these fields too will hopefully aid in our understanding of time... but part of me does not feel it will do too much to help us arrive at it's essence.

Maybe this post really does belong in philoshophy...

So far, it's something that flows, a place where we should be, slices of events, and a 4th point allowing us to locate such events (you know where something happened, but to locate it you also need to know when). I like where this snowball is rolling...


Thanks again.
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InfiniteNow

Last edited by InfiniteNow; 12-22-2005 at 10:38 AM..
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Old 12-23-2005   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

InfiniteNow:
Quote:
Perhaps the faucet wouldn't leak if there were no time... or maybe it's that there is no time (in the abstract sense) while we are fixing the leak. Who knows, but thanks for the cheer you exhibited in your response. I am not so sure about the "drop in the bucket" concept... what's dropping? in what medium does it drop? what the heck is the bucket a metaphor of? Oyy...
You have a very gentle spirit, but I'd expect that from one who contemplates the moment. Life IS now. We prepare for the next moment by contemplating past moments.
'Now' is:
the tip of the nose of the stallion that races to defend its harem.
the hand of the newborn with eyes squeezed shut that reaches out to touch existence.
the first kiss.
the bleeding edge of life.
meaning.
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Old 12-23-2005   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Moments and events

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldsoftwaresteve
InfiniteNow:You have a very gentle spirit, but I'd expect that from one who contemplates the moment. Life IS now. We prepare for the next moment by contemplating past moments.
'Now' is:
the tip of the nose of the stallion that races to defend its harem.
the hand of the newborn with eyes squeezed shut that reaches out to touch existence.
the first kiss.
the bleeding edge of life.
meaning.
Not bad dsoftwaresteve, I feel bad now that for what I just posted in the final theory thread. You have potential. Anyway, there is a test that might be of value.

About the subject of this thread, I would simply say that because the speed of light c is limited every event in the universe, when one says now, is in the past. Just look out into the universe and you will see. An event near the nearest star happened four light years ago, etc, etc. That is the nature of a continuum. Recall special relativity. Einstein sitting in the middle of a moving train which is hit by lightning at the front and at the rear simultaneously, yet Einstein saw the light from the front of the train first.


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