Origin of the Universe,,,,Bang or no Bang

[REASON]

Originally Posted by modest

Fantastic picture, Pluto. Relativistic Jets certainly are a great area of interest for astronomy.

Why do you suppose galaxies that are far away from us are so much more likely to have active galactic nuclei and jets than galaxies that are close to us? This certainly means that far away galaxies are different from nearby galaxies, have you considered why that is the case?

~modest

I don't know if this is true or not, but I've considered that the light we see from the most distant galaxies is revealing a view of the early stages of galaxy formation since they represent the oldest obects we can see. Essentially a primordial view when there was a lot of activity with the central supermassive black hole consuming matter and gaining mass that is a natural part of galaxy development before they mature and stabilize. During these active periods early on, there was tremendous amounts of energy being released. Closer in galaxies would appear more recent in their development and therefore more mature and stable.

I've wondered if the Milky Way as well went through a similar active period in it's early development. I would think it would had to have considering how massive the black hole is at the center.

Just a thought.

[modest]

You're spot on Reason

As Pluto thinks a universe that constantly recycles itself is most likely, there would be no evolving trend from young to mature galaxies. There would be no reason for galaxies 10 billion years ago to frequently have very active galactic nuclei while mature galaxies today rarely do. Given this, I wonder what explanation could be given for this observation other than an aging and rather young universe. I can't think of one.

More interesting is the study of the evolution of the AGN population. Most luminous classes of AGN (radio-loud and radio-quiet) seem to have been much more numerous in the early universe. This suggests (1) that massive black holes formed early on and (2) that the conditions for the formation of luminous AGN were more readily available in the early universe -- for example, that there was a much higher availability of cold gas near the centre of galaxies than there is now. It also implies, of course, that many objects that were once luminous quasars are now much less luminous, or entirely quiescent.

Active galactic nucleus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

~modest

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzz

Modest said

As Pluto thinks a universe that constantly recycles itself is most likely, there would be no evolving trend from young to mature galaxies. There would be no reason for galaxies 10 billion years ago to frequently have very active galactic nuclei while mature galaxies today rarely do. Given this, I wonder what explanation could be given for this observation other than an aging and rather young universe. I can't think of one.

Please if you wish to draw conclusions do not use the name Pluto out of context.

Your logic is not very scientific, it lacks understanding of the processes of star formation and galaxy evolution.

A cycling universe would not need any ad hoc ideas and can explain the oberservable universe to the T.

You need to research star and galaxy evolution to understand the recycling process.

The evolution of so called black holes from stellar size to monster size and their activity is extremely complicated.

Do I understand the complete process not yet, do others I do not think so. There are various papers on the cyclic universe written by well known scientists.

I just finished reading this paper to try to understand what and where all the matter is. Its not the total answer and I would think we are several years away from that.


[0805.1905] Dark matter and the LHC
Dark matter and the LHC

Authors: Howard Baer, Xerxes Tata
(Submitted on 13 May 2008 (v1), last revised 29 May 2008 (this version, v2))

Abstract: An abundance of astrophysical evidence indicates that the bulk of matter in the universe is made up of massive, electrically neutral particles that form the dark matter (DM). While the density of DM has been precisely measured, the identity of the DM particle (or particles) is a complete mystery. In fact, within the laws of physics as we know them (the Standard Model, or SM), none of the particles have the right properties to make up DM. Remarkably, many new physics extensions of the SM -- designed to address theoretical issues with the electroweak symmetry breaking sector -- require the introduction of new particles, some of which are excellent DM candidates. As the LHC era begins, there are high hopes that DM particles, along with their associated new matter states, will be produced in pp collisions. We discuss how LHC experiments, along with other DM searches, may serve to determine the identity of DM particles and elucidate the associated physics. Most of our discussion centers around theories with weak-scale supersymmetry, and allows for several different DM candidate particles.

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

This paper is for the BBT people.

[0804.4156] Resolving the Formation of Protogalaxies
Resolving the Formation of Protogalaxies

Authors: John H. Wise (NASA/GSFC)
(Submitted on 25 Apr 2008)

Abstract: Cosmic structure originated from minute density perturbations in an almost homogeneous universe. The first stars are believed to be very massive and luminous, providing the first ionizing radiation and heavy elements to the universe and forming 100 million years after the Big Bang. The impact from primordial stellar radiation is far reaching and affects subsequent star and galaxy formation. In this thesis, we present results from adaptive mesh refinement calculations of the formation of the first galaxies. We gradually introduce important physical processes, such as molecular hydrogen cooling and stellar feedback, to base models that only consider atomic hydrogen and helium cooling. In these base models, we find that gas in dark matter halos with masses ~10^8 solar masses centrally collapse before multiple fragmentation occurs in a global disc. We then investigate the importance of molecular hydrogen cooling in early structure formation in the presence of a soft ultraviolet radiation background. We find that molecular hydrogen plays an important role in star formation in halos well below a virial temperature of 10,000 K even in the most extreme assumptions of negative radiative feedback. We also present results from the first radiation hydrodynamics calculations of early dwarf galaxy formation. We develop a novel technique, adaptive ray tracing, to accurately transport radiation from primordial stars. We find primordial stellar feedback alters the landscape of early galaxy formation in that its angular momentum is increased and baryon fractions are decreased. We also describe the metal enrichment of the intergalactic medium and early dwarf galaxies. Finally we explore cosmological reionization by these massive, metal-free stars and its effects on star formation in early galaxies.

The question that many ask is:

What form did matter have before this phase and what was before that?

[Pluto]

G'day

I should have added this link before


Was There A Big Bang?
http://arxiv.org/abs/0803.3604

Authors: Robert K. Soberman, Maurice Dubin
(Submitted on 25 Mar 2008)

Abstract: The big bang hypothesis is widely accepted despite numerous physics conflicts. It rests upon two experimental supports, galactic red shift and the cosmic microwave background. Both are produced by dark matter, shown here to be hydrogen dominated aggregates with a few percent of helium nodules. Scattering from these non-radiating intergalactic masses produce a red shift that normally correlates with distance. Warmed by our galaxy to an Eigenvalue of 2.735 K, drawn near the Earth, these bodies, kept cold by ablation, resonance radiate the Planckian microwave signal. Several tests are proposed that will distinguish between this model and the big bang.

Conclusions
It should come as no surprise to the astronomical community that the universe is
composed overwhelmingly of hydrogen. The remaining few percent is dominated by helium.
For three quarters of a century most of this mass remained cloaked in darkness despite numerous
clues to its existence.
The two experimental pillars (red-shift and microwave radiation) on which the big bang
rests are shown as consequences of dark matter (cosmoids) in intergalactic, interstellar, solar
system and near Earth space. The galactic red-shift results from Mie scatter of transiting
intergalactic photons and the microwave foreground radiation from solar heated cosmoids
resonance radiating a Planck Eigenvalue set by helium nodules. The micro-Kelvin variants are
consequences of interactions with our Milky Way Galaxy.
The import of the “big bang” is apparent in the 2006 Nobel physics prize awards to J. C.
Mather and G. F. Smoot. Questioning that hypothesis requires, like any worthwhile physical
model, tests that can distinguish between the opposing concepts. Several tests are proposed, the
results of which, we predict, will contradict big bang assumptions. Foremost a mixture of
hydrogen with a small amount of helium should be cooled to establish that an Eigenvalue plateau
exists at 2.735 K. An examination of the intensity of type 1A supernovae radiation versus red
shift derived distances will show a small discrepancy from inverse square variance. A microwave
receiver aboard an interplanetary spacecraft, beyond 3.5 AU, aimed away from the Sun will hear
barely a whisper of the background radiation. Another test involves measuring the red shift
produced by the dark matter (cosmoids) lying within one AU of the Sun. If an astronomical
source is observed twice, near six months apart, almost 90o from the direction of the Earth’s
motion, such that the distance difference incorporates a major chord through the Earth’s orbital
plane, a measurable red shift will be observed.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Pluto

A cycling universe would not need any ad hoc ideas and can explain the oberservable universe to the T.

What do you mean by "cycling universe"? Please explain.

~modest

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by modest

What do you mean by "cycling universe"? Please explain.

Originally Posted by Pluto

There are various papers on the cyclic universe written by well known scientists.

Pluto, can you provide references, or better, links to some of these papers? This would, I think, help answer modest’s question, a question many of us have.

For me, the phrase “cycling universe” brings to mind the oscillatory universe model, a very old (1777) model that predates all but the earliest scientific understandings of the existence of galaxies and other large-scale cosmic structures, or the term Cyclic model, a modern one referring to a broad collection of theories of cosmology in which many big bangs and “big crunches” occur in cycles, including brane theoretical models, and fringy ones such as Peter Lynds “time reversal” model (A description of Lynd can be found in this 6/2005 Wired article, his personal webpage, here).

Originally Posted by Pluto

[0804.4156] Resolving the Formation of Protogalaxies
Authors: John H. Wise (NASA/GSFC)
(Submitted on 25 Apr 2008)

The question that many ask is:
What form did matter have before this phase and what was before that?

Wise describes, in the conventional terminology of according to the big bang model, the early universe between the “recombination era”, in which space became transparent, and the “reionization era”, in which the first stars appeared, a period known as the “dark ages”. According to this model, this period occurs between about 250,000 to and 150,000,000 years after the Big Bang, during which time the universe was a nearly homogenous cloud of non-ionized hydrogen (~75%), helium (~25%), and traces of atoms as heavy as beryllium. This is described in many texts, including the wikipedia article “timeline of the Big Bang”.

Many cosmologists have considered the question of how this nearly homogenous gas “clumped” to form the first stars. Wise’s paper appears to be addressing not this question, but the effects of these first stars on the formation of the next generations of stars and larger scale structures such as galaxies.

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzz

One needs to understand star formation and the cyclic process and galaxy evolution and the cyclic process that takes place in reforming galaxy structure.

What part of {star formation and rejuvination, formation of Neutron star, exotic stars and stellar black holes, the eventual destination by the Nucleon (BH) at the centre of a galaxy and the formation of jets that eject matter and reform the structure of Galaxies by these active Nucleons (BHs)} do you not understand as being part of a cyclic process.

There are various cyclic theories as CraigD stated.

and
A Recycled Universe: Scientific American

A Recycled Universe
Crashing branes and cosmic acceleration may power an infinite cycle in which our universe is but a phase
By*George Musser*and*JR Minkel

A UNIVERSAL CYCLE of birth and rebirth occurs every trillion years or so, according to one new cosmology. Big bangs result when two 10-dimensional "branes" collide (1) and expand (2) and then collide again (4). In this scenario, our universe (3) marks just one phase in this infinite cycle.

Steinhardt
Paul J. Steinhardt
Department of Physics Princeton University

'Cyclic universe' can explain cosmological constant
'Cyclic universe' can explain cosmological constant - space - 04 May 2006 - New Scientist
4/05/2006 19:00
NewScientist.com news service
Zeeya Merali

http://www.ias.ac.in/jaa/junsep2007/JAA521.pdf
J. Astrophys. Astr. (2007) 28, 67–99
Cosmology and Cosmogony in a Cyclic Universe
Jayant V. Narlikar1,∗, Geoffrey Burbidge2 & R. G. Vishwakarma3

Abstract. In this paper we discuss the properties of the quasi-steady state
cosmological model (QSSC) developed in 1993 in its role as a cyclic model
of the universe driven by a negative energy scalar field. We discuss the
origin of such a scalar field in the primary creation process first described
by F. Hoyle & J. V. Narlikar forty years ago. It is shown that the creation
processes which take place in the nuclei of galaxies are closely linked to
the high energy and explosive phenomena, which are commonly observed
in galaxies at all redshifts.
The cyclic nature of the universe provides a natural link between the
places of origin of the microwave background radiation (arising in hydrogen
burning in stars), and the origin of the lightest nuclei (H, D, He3 and
He4). It also allows us to relate the large scale cyclic properties of the universe
to events taking place in the nuclei of galaxies. Observational evidence
shows that ejection of matter and energy from these centers in the
form of compact objects, gas and relativistic particles is responsible for the
population of quasi-stellar objects (QSOs) and gamma-ray burst sources
in the universe.
In the later parts of the paper we briefly discuss the major unsolved
problems of this integrated cosmological and cosmogonical scheme – the
understanding of the origin of the intrinsic redshifts, and the periodicities
in the redshift distribution of the QSOs.

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"The cyclic universe model is a simple mechanism for solving the cosmological constant problem" - Scitizen
"The cyclic universe model is a simple mechanism for solving the cosmological constant problem"


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The Cyclic Universe
by WARDELL LINDSAY
The Cyclic Universe by WARDELL LINDSAY (Book) in Medicine & Science

The Universe is in Cyclic Equilibrium with the Gravitational CentriPetal forces balanced by the CentriFugal forces of moving masses.The Potential real energy and the Vector energy create an oscillation between the two energies to keep the Universe oscillating via conservation of energy. The cycle time is 16.5 Billion years. The mass and radius of the universe are related to the Gravitational Constant and the speed of light. Theses constants are important in determining the ratio of the mass and radius of the Universe. Electricity also plays a role in configurations. Electricity plays the same role as Gravity as a Potential energy center.

Loop Quantum Gravity and the Cyclic Universe
[hep-th/0407115] Loop Quantum Gravity and the Cyclic Universe
Authors: Martin Bojowald, Roy Maartens, Parampreet Singh
(Submitted on 14 Jul 2004 (v1), last revised 23 Sep 2004 (this version, v2))

Abstract: Loop quantum gravity introduces strong non-perturbative modifications to the dynamical equations in the semi-classical regime, which are responsible for various novel effects, including resolution of the classical singularity in a Friedman universe. Here we investigate the modifications for the case of a cyclic universe potential, assuming that we can apply the four-dimensional loop quantum formalism within the effective four-dimensional theory of the cyclic scenario. We find that loop quantum effects can dramatically alter the near-collision dynamics of the cyclic scenario. In the kinetic-dominated collapse era, the scalar field is effectively frozen by loop quantum friction, so that the branes approach collision and bounce back without actual collision.

Vector Perturbations in a Contracting Universe
[hep-th/0406180] Vector Perturbations in a Contracting Universe

Authors: Thorsten Battefeld, Robert Brandenberger

(Submitted on 21 Jun 2004 (v1), last revised 22 Oct 2004 (this version, v3))

Abstract: In this note we show that vector perturbations exhibit growing mode solutions in a contracting Universe, such as the contracting phase of the Pre Big Bang or the Cyclic/Ekpyrotic models of the Universe. This is not a gauge artifact and will in general lead to the breakdown of perturbation theory -- a severe problem that has to be addressed in any bouncing model. We also comment on the possibility of explaining, by means of primordial vector perturbations, the existence of the observed large scale magnetic fields. This is possible since they can be seeded by vorticity.

Beyond Inflation: A Cyclic Universe Scenario
Authors: Neil Turok, Paul J. Seinhardt
(Submitted on 1 Mar 2004)
[hep-th/0403020] Beyond Inflation: A Cyclic Universe Scenario

================================================== ==

There are many papers on the cyclic process that may explain the ongoings of the universe. Some involve the BBT others branch out to explain the actual observation of stars and BHs and galaxies in their various cyclic stages.

I tend to support a model that is supported by observations.
When I have time, i will present this better.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Pluto

What part of {star formation and rejuvination, formation of Neutron star, exotic stars and stellar black holes, the eventual destination by the Nucleon (BH) at the centre of a galaxy and the formation of jets that eject matter and reform the structure of Galaxies by these active Nucleons (BHs)} do you not understand as being part of a cyclic process.

Hey Pluto.

A cyclic process is understood to be the alternating expansion and contraction of the universe as a whole. The links you offer all discuss a "cyclic universe" from this standpoint. There are alternating cosmological periods of expanding and contracting space. I am not opposed to this idea in theory nor would I be opposed to relating such a process to QSOs, relativistic jets, and active galactic nuclei like the paper on QSSC which you link tries to do.

But, you seem to reject the idea of expanding space or an expanding and evolving universe while you link and support theories of a cyclic universe. These two things appear to be mutually exclusive.

Would you agree with the links you post that the universe is expanding?

~modest

[Pluto]

G'day from the land of ozzzzzz

I'm trying to understand the working parts of the universe.

As for the BBT and expansion of the universe. I do not agree with it, the evidence is not concrete enough to suggest that they are on strong foundations.

At this moment Dark matter is the reading that my mentor has given me to read. It will take months.

As for expansion and contraction, we observe it as a process in the working parts of the universe, but! not as a total unit that dances to the same tune.

Modest, I'm not a smart cookie. Its going to take me years to understand. So my mind is open for more input.

I thank you for your kind discussion and your time.

I wish you all a Very Merry Xmas and a happy new year