Why can't the universe be Infinite?

[Nixalot]

I have been reading several articles and papers by Stephen Hawking and, the two new noble prize winners, Smoot and Mather, and simply don't understand how by radiation and old light the universe can be given an age. I am a personal believer that the Universe is infinite and has always existed and that the reason that many people cannot see this is because it is impossible to imagine infinity. I know that there are many articles out there that say that there is no such thing as infinity, but why? Why is it that we think we must put an age, a label, some theorem on everything? If for centuries people could believe that God is there and has always been, then why not apply that to the Universe? And if the Big Bang theory is true, then what is past the extending universe… nothing? But if infinity can’t exist then nothing can’t exist… something else to talk about in another forum: What is Nothing? Anyway, I know that there is no definite answer out there but I just want to spur some ideas…

Peace
*NIXALOT*

[Buffy]

You would seem to be advocating for Hoyle's Steady State model, which is no longer fashionable, and this link has a very quick overview of why the evidence seems to show that the Big Bang is better supported. "Fear of the infinite" is not something even Hoyle would have posited as supporting his theory though...

If you're looking for models that celebrate the infinite, you may want to look into the various "multiverse" theories that theorize about other universes beyond our own. The main problem with these of course is that there's no way to show any evidence for them!

Infinitely curious,
Buffy

[C1ay]

It's entirely possible that the Universe is infinite but the observable Universe is finite. It should be clear that we will always be limited to a finite view in any direction from our observation point. No one will ever be able to show that anything does or does not lie beyond our observable range.

[hallenrm]

Originally Posted by Nixalot

Why is it that we think we must put an age, a label, some theorem on everything? If for centuries people could believe that God is there and has always been, then why not apply that to the Universe? And if the Big Bang theory is true, then what is past the extending universe… nothing? But if infinity can’t exist then nothing can’t exist… something else to talk about in another forum: What is Nothing? Anyway, I know that there is no definite answer out there but I just want to spur some ideas…

Peace
*NIXALOT*

That's the method of science, dear Nixalot, Take it or leave it that's your choice! It does not encourage us to believe in the permanance of any concept, how so ever long it may have been in vogue, say that of God, or in any theory whether it is the Theory of relativity or that of Big Bang. Everything is taken as susceptible to change and future scrutiny.

In its attempt to explain phenomena, science has to introduce concepts, like infinity, which may not be easily assimilated by the brains of some people, but then the science marches on in its conquest

[durgatosh]

Nixalot
But if infinity can’t exist then nothing can’t exist… something else to talk about in another forum: What is Nothing? Anyway, I know that there is no definite answer out there but I just want to spur some ideas…

I would partly agree with you. I too believe that the universe is infinite and ever-existing. I have raised the issue of "zero (nothing)" and "infinity" in the thread I started, "The Origin of Universe: Solving the mystery". Take a look at it.

The Origin of Universe: Solving the mystery

In short, the sum total of the universe is zero (which explains that it does not need an origin). But, zero can't exist on its own and therefore exists as a vast multitude of positives and negatives, the sum total being zero. Zero represents the entire range of negative to positive infinity.

DP

[niin]

Originally Posted by Nixalot

I am a personal believer that the Universe is infinite and has always existed

I think you are right. let's try some simple logic.

1) The universe exist
2) You can't get something from nothing

So the universe must always have existed.

Originally Posted by Nixalot

Anyway, I know that there is no definite answer out there but I just want to spur some ideas

My answer seem kind of definite to me.

Don't let yourself be too impressed (or bullied) by mainstream science. Popularity does not prove anything

[quadrapod]

have you heard of the new energy they have found said to make up a huge percentage of the energy in the universe it is made by a minute form of nuclear fission and is apparently pulling every thing away from a center and in a sense the over all fate of our galaxy is worse than ever pictured before. we will drift forever until we are lonely and desolate without any chance of even sighting another galaxy or planet or anything ever again. hmmph truly sad. of course it will take so much time for that to happen that our galaxy is more likely to collide with a neighboring one first. which reminds me. this energy also holds together galaxies because it was before accepted that gravity held them together despite the fact gravity is far from strong enough to do this. This just proves that we like to convince ourselves of answers no matter how wrong they obviously are.

[InfiniteNow]

Specific terms, or cited evidence might help, but after reading this I am

[quadrapod]

I agree that some specifics may help

universes outward acceleration was found by measuring the "red shift" of many type 1a supernova. the "red" is the degree to which the electromagnetic waves that make up light have been stretched. from the start all type 1A supernovae have a uniform light signature. all the same color and brightness. using the degree of the red shift it is possible to determine this distance of galaxies and then the acceleration.

the energy is known as dark energy
the degree of "red" is also known as red shift
i found all this using
wikipedia.org
universe.nasa.gov/press/2003/031010a.html
agile.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/swift/about_swift/redshift.html

[ronthepon]

Here is my personal (somewhat lame) attempt to explain the issue. I know that it has very obvious and apparent stupidities, but I think that it could have some effect.

Second law of thermodynamics :
In an isolated system, the total entropy can only increase with time.

Observation:
The universe is not in a state of infinite entropy.

Assumption:
The universe is an isolated system.

Conclusion:
The universe has not been existing for an infinite amount of time.

I place it in a very simple, and crude form. I'm not even sure if the thermodynamics I'm using here is correct or not.
I need this to be analysed by someone who knows.