Evolution is Fact

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

Big Eek, indeed!

Yes, I'm afraid it is logical. If one declares the general rule "communication is involved at every taxonomic level", then the general rule can be shown to be invalid if there is one taxonomic level where it does not occur.

Say, for example, at the level of prokaryotic bacteria. They just feed, excrete and undergo asexual reproduction. No communication.

ZAP!!!

Sorry, even the lowly prokaryote communicate to one another. So you can go fuck yourself.

JOURNAL OF BACTERIOLOGY, Nov. 1996, p. 6618–6622 Vol. 178, No. 22
0021-9193/96/$04.0010
Copyright q 1996, American Society for Microbiology
NOTES
Eukaryotic Interference with Homoserine Lactone-Mediated
Prokaryotic Signalling
MICHAEL GIVSKOV,1 ROCKY DE NYS,2 MICHAEL MANEFIELD,3 LONE GRAM,4 RIA MAXIMILIEN,2
LEO EBERL,1 SØREN MOLIN,1 PETER D. STEINBERG,2 AND STAFFAN KJELLEBERG3*
Department of Microbiology,1 and Danish Institute for Fisheries Research, Department of Seafood Research,4
The Technical University of Denmark, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark, and School of
Biological Science2 and School of Microbiology and Immunology,3
University of New South Wales, Sydney 2052, Australia
Received 6 June 1996/Accepted 13 September 1996
Acylated homoserine lactones (AHLs) play a widespread role in intercellular communication among bacteria.
The Australian macroalga Delisea pulchra produces secondary metabolites which have structural similarities
to AHL molecules. We report here that these metabolites inhibited AHL-controlled processes in prokaryotes.
Our results suggest that the interaction between higher organisms and their surface-associated
bacteria may be mediated by interference with bacterial regulatory systems.
Acylated homoserine lactones (AHLs) serve as signals in
bacterial communication.

More here....

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Also, I'd challenge you to support this assertion with a reference. Please cite where it's been shown that "cooperation is manifested at every taxonomic level of the animal kingdom."

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Its called sexual reproduction.

See, now I can't even take you seriously.

Sexual reproduction "a citation showing that cooperation is manifested at every taxonomic level of the animal kingdom."

Sorry, sir, but your answer is not adequate. I'd encourage you to try again.

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

All one needs to do in order to prove such an assertion wrong is to show ONE place where there isn't cooperation.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Sorry that's not even remotely logical.

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

Big Eek, indeed!

Yes, I'm afraid it is logical. If one declares the general rule "communication is involved at every taxonomic level", then the general rule can be shown to be invalid if there is one taxonomic level where it does not occur.

Say, for example, at the level of prokaryotic bacteria. They just feed, excrete and undergo asexual reproduction. No communication.

ZAP!!!

Exactly my point. I'd hoped to encourage Thunderbird to do some study and determine this on his own, but I thank you for providing a quick answer for those not so inclined.

Now, I'm still not sure exactly what part of his post above proves his point, but it appears that he is making up and using his own personal definition of "communication."

Originally Posted by CraigD

Following the conversation starting, roughly, withand seeming to me at an impasse withI’ve a hunch the disagreement is most due to miscommunication.

I respect your attempt to move this conversation forward, and also to help give an "out" to the poster presenting inaccuracies, but I believe this is more than a "miscommunication," and instead extends into the realm of "misunderstanding."

If someone understood evolution, they would not assert that it is cognitive, nor that it has some goal or is directed. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by freeztar

So, sexual reproduction=cooperation? What about organisms that reproduce asexually?

sexual reproduction is a direct evolutionary result of single cell cooperation. read my post again.

The advanced progession of communication systems.


1. Cell to cell communication based upon chemicals relations.
Results in multi-cellular organisms.
2. Species to species sexual communication based upon chemical and visual signals for higher species.
3. Chemical, visual , and auditory communications that relay to potential mates genetic qualities, strong traits.
4. Chemical, visual , auditory, and creative traits signaling to potential mates that the mating partner has not only strengths and energy to survive but has a surpluses of traits to adapt to changes.
5. Complex communication within social groups. exchange of information between group members on food sources, dangers etc.
6.And finally complex language, the biggest leap of cognition on earth that gave man the edge on any other species. Language allowed for an individual to relay complex information in detail that could be passed on as memes surpassing even genetics as a way to pass on information that would allow an individuals and groups to survive to pass on these specific cognitive traits.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Sorry, even the lowly prokaryote communicate to one another.

Nothing in your quote shows any cognitive communication.....

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by C1ay

Nothing in your quote shows any cognitive communication.....

I have to agree with T-Bird, communication doesn't necessarily mean cognition just a transfer of information of some sort, it can be genetic information or pheromones or flashes of color but communication is at the heart of it.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by C1ay

Nothing in your quote shows any cognitive communication.....

No, it shows communication. when communication becomes cognition is an unknown,it is part of the evolutionary process however, therefore debatable. .

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

I have to agree with T-Bird, communication doesn't necessarily mean cognition just a transfer of information of some sort, it can be genetic information or pheromones or flashes of color but communication is at the heart of it.

I well realize what communication is but T-Bird is the one that claimed that this communication of information is cognitive...

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

I took a little semantic license, my bad, The total sum cognitive direction of a species though time as a whole. Human kind, rabbit kind.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

sexual reproduction is a direct evolutionary result of single cell cooperation. read my post again.

It doesn't matter how many times we read it. It's still false.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

1. Cell to cell communication based upon chemicals relations.
Results in multi-cellular organisms.

False. If I put two cells into a jar, it will NOT necessarily result in multi-cellular organisms. Strike one.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

2. Species to species sexual communication based upon chemical and visual signals for higher species.

Species, by definition, cannot reproduce with each other. Strike two.

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

3. Chemical, visual , and auditory communications that relay to potential mates genetic qualities, strong traits.

You ignore asexual reproduction. Strike three.


I'm not even going to bother with the rest, because you're first three axioms were already false, so you're out.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

No, it shows communication. when communication becomes cognition is an unknown,it is part of the evolutionary process however, therefore debatable.

You haven't proven that it ever becomes part of the process. There is no evidence that any communication is the result of any conscious intellectual activity, cognition. Now if you say that it is part of the evolutionary process prove it.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird
sexual reproduction is a direct evolutionary result of single cell cooperation. read my post again.

It doesn't matter how many times we read it. It's still false.

How do you think multi-cellular life got to be multi-cellular... communication..Strike one.