Evolution is Fact

[HydrogenBond]

Selective advantage can often be defined in the context of the environment. For example, the ability to retain water may be a selective advantage in the desert. But it will not give any selective advantage where there is plenty of water. The same genetic thing, could be a disadvantage in one environment, and the cat's meow in another.

Let me do this another way. We will set up an ecosystem that is based on low protein food sources. I predict the future of selective advantage will go in the direction of critters who can best make use of this low protein diet. This is not magic, but cause and effect. If some critters evolve high protein needs, these won't last very long in that environment.

If a critter could change the environment, like humans can and do, it can alter the cause and effect stemming the environment, and gain selective advantage, without the need for any new genetic change. For example, if a critter develops better protein utilization, within the low protein environment, this has little advantage. But if he could migrate to a high protein based environment, cause and effect will apply, and it will now have advantage, without any further genetic change. It may look like it just mutated, to the untrained eye biased with uncertainty. But we know there is cause and effect at work.

For humans and apes to split, could have been due to the migration out of Africa, which the data seems to indicate, that turned disadvantage into an advantage. The group with the initial advantage sort of got stuck within the narrower confines of an ecosystem. The other migrating group, with the environment always changing, had more niches to turn genetic lead into gold. Eventually, humans begin to tailor the environmental cause and effect, in situ, to make it easier for them to have advantage.

Probability calculations for evolution are not exactly valid, if one does not know the deck is partially fixed by the environment. It may assume four cards of each suit in the deck, but does not take into accounts the environment adds some extra aces. A new set of odds needs to be used that includes the fact we have more aces. If you don't take that into account, the stats from four of a kind, even if solid math, is erroneous in reality. It is not just chaos doing everything, it is also the extra aces contributing to jack pots.

[Guadalupe]

Hi!

We asked ourselves, what came first and what came after. Was it creation or evolution? The answer to that question is creation. Creation came first and evolution came after. Without creation evolution cannot exist. Creation is proof that evolution exists. Everything has a point of origin and creation is the origin of evolution.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Guadalupe

Hi!

Howdy!

Originally Posted by Guadalupe

We asked ourselves, what came first and what came after.

Um, "we" who?

Originally Posted by Guadalupe

Without creation evolution cannot exist.

Which creation? The creation-commonly-referred-to-as-Big-Bang could have evolved, and is quite likely to have done so according to many cosmological theories.

Of course that evolution probably had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and that creation had an evolution, and that evolution had a creation, and ....

So,

Originally Posted by Guadalupe

Creation is proof that evolution exists.

And Evolution is proof that creation exists, and creation is proof that evolution exists, and Evolution is proof that creation exists, and creation is proof that evolution exists, and Evolution is proof that creation exists, and creation is proof that evolution exists, and Evolution is proof that creation exists, and creation is proof that evolution exists, and Evolution is proof that creation exists, and creation is proof that evolution exists, and....

Originally Posted by Guadalupe

Everything has a point of origin and creation is the origin of evolution.

And Evolution is the origin of creation!

It's *amazing* how useful circular reasoning can be sometimes!

If you care to leave your ship, we'll provide the necessary life support systems,
Buffy

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Guadalupe

Hi!

We asked ourselves, what came first and what came after. Was it creation or evolution? The answer to that question is creation. Creation came first and evolution came after. Without creation evolution cannot exist. Creation is proof that evolution exists. Everything has a point of origin and creation is the origin of evolution.

Hey, Guadalupe, do you have any evidence to back that assertion? How does evolution sprint from creation? Creation or at least the biblical texts describing it predisposes all life, plant and animal being created all at once in the space of six days. Evolution on the other hand starts with abiogenesis and slowly evolves over billions of years to complex life.

[lemit]

Where I grew up, "Creation" or "God's Creation" was the coinage for the universe. People used it un-self-consciously to describe everything taken as a whole.

If we use that connotation for "Creation," Guadalupe's post makes perfect sense.

Guadalupe, is that what you meant?

Thanks.

--lemit

[REASON]

Originally Posted by lemit

Where I grew up, "Creation" or "God's Creation" was the coinage for the universe. People used it un-self-consciously to describe everything taken as a whole.

If we use that connotation for "Creation," Guadalupe's post makes perfect sense.

Guadalupe, is that what you meant?

Thanks.

--lemit

Yes, but even in that context, Buffy's response still applies.

[HydrogenBond]

Humans created the theory of evolution. The theory did not evolve as a natural expression of evolution. If it did, evolution theory would not be about ongoing progress, from an earlier state of thought, to a more progressed sate. Evolution is about random change, drift and selective advantage. Things that evolve, simply find a niche, which gives an advantage, with progress not part of the equation.

Creation has a different standard, based more on absolutes and progress. This is why creationism is often equated with god. It doubtful evolution would like to treat its own beginning in the context of its own theory. Darwin would simply be a random state of human, with progress not really an issue. The theory simply gave him an advantage. Since evolved is a relative term, this was just as evolved as Marvel comic books, which also had their own niche. But if it was created by Darwin, it shows a logical movement toward progress in an absolute sense. Evolutionary theory was created.

It is an interesting exercise to explain evolutionary theory, both its formation to the present and future, in the context of evolution. It makes it look bumbling without an sense of direction or progress. It is more about just getting an advantage. But to be honest, it doesn't even come under its own theory, being more a part of creation.

[coldcreation]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

Humans created the theory of evolution. ...
Evolutionary theory was created.
...

Nonsense.

This type of play on words is of no use.

Evolution theory was the outcome of observation. Conclusions were drawn as to how nature functions, they were documented, written down, and the evidence shows the theory to be correct.

Science works.


CC

[Racoon]

Evolution did have to start at a singular event if you backtrack it far enough. right?

I Guess you could call that point "Creation", for lack of a better term

I could call it a lot of things, but I think that its beyond My human reasoning... or at least beyond my human capability to grasp the enormity of the Event. ; with the knowledge we have available currently


Live and learn
Rac


Just becuz' We haven't encountered Aliens, doesn't mean they don't exist

[coldcreation]

Originally Posted by Racoon

Evolution did have to start at a singular event if you backtrack it far enough. right?

I Guess you could call that point "Creation", for lack of a better term

Actually not.

Evolution theory deals with life, not the cosmos. I assume your creation event above is the big bang.

As far as the evolution of life is concerned, there is no guarantee the origin was a singular creation event.

That is why the term 'evolution' is perfect for the purpose of describing what happens in nature relative to life. There is always something that precedes a given life-form.

So "Creation" for "lack of a better term" is not the one to use. Especially not with a capital "C."

There is a better term. It stars with a small 'e' (unless it's at the beginning of a sentence of course).

CC