Evolution is Fact

[goku]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

i didn't say all chemical reactions.

fair enough, so which ones can learn?

[goku]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Continuing the metaphor, I urge you to join our bonfire, Goku.

what

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by goku

fair enough, so which ones can learn?

Probably the simplest would be organic catalysts that grow ever more complex as they react with each other.This growing complexity could be seen as the beginning of the transfer of information. Some proteans can transfer information and might have predated RNA and DNA as information coding molecules. There is no one simple chemical that can actually transfer knowledge, this is far to complex for a simple chemical reaction but as chemical reactions become more complex inside of life forms the life forms become more complex so does the information they transfer. This is not a go/no go process but a gradual one.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Probably the simplest would be organic catalysts that grow ever more complex as they react with each other.

I believe catalysts are a good example of chemical reactions "learning". A very simple example is supersaturated sodium acetate. The solution has no crystals in it. When you add a crystal it will catalyze a chain reaction in effect "teaching" the sodium acetate in solution how to become crystal.

YouTube - Crystallization of homemade sodium...

~modest

[coldcreation]

Originally Posted by modest

I believe catalysts are a good example of chemical reactions "learning". A very simple example is supersaturated sodium acetate. The solution has no crystals in it. When you add a crystal it will catalyze a chain reaction in effect "teaching" the sodium acetate in solution how to become crystal.
~modest

Nice vid.

Here is an interesting study that complements your video:

Evolution of Life Shown in Fungus Molecule, The crystal structure of a molecule from a primitive fungus has served as a time machine to show researchers more about the evolution of life from the simple to the complex.

Looking at the crystal, the scientists saw two things, Golden said. One was that this protein uses two completely different molecular surfaces to perform its two roles. The second is that the protein seems to perform the same job that RNA performed in other simple organisms.

"The crystal structure provides a snapshot of how, during evolution, protein molecules came to assist RNA molecules in their biological functions and ultimately assumed roles previously played by RNA," Golden said.

Before the crystallization, Lambowitz, Paukstelis and their research team at The University of Texas at Austin were involved in a long-term project to study the function of the basic cellular workhorse protein and other evolutionary fossils from the fungus. In earlier work, the scientists studied a different protein that showed how biochemical processes could progress from a world with RNA and protein to DNA...

"The RNA molecule in our study is capable of performing a specific chemical reaction on itself, but it requires a protein for this reaction to take place efficiently"

And here too: The Origin of Life: Abiogenesis by Chemical Evolution?

How did life begin? What was the origin of the first carbon-based life on earth?
Scientists are proposing various theories for a natural origin of life by a process of abiogenesis (a non-biological production of life) that can be viewed as a chemical evolution from non-life to life...

Scientists usually propose a four-stage process of formation for the first life:
1A. formation of small organic molecules (amino acids, nucleic acid bases,…),
1B. and these combine to make larger biomolecules (proteins, RNA, lipids,…),
2A. which self-organized, by a variety of interactions, into a semi-alive system
2B. that gradually transformed into a more sophisticated form, a living organism.

[goku]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

There is no one simple chemical that can actually transfer knowledge, this is far to complex for a simple chemical reaction

okay i think we're getting somewhere,
now think of all the chemical reactions that naturally occur on earth that are not organic

i can't think of any

after billions of years the planet would reach a state of zero reactions because everything that could react, reacted

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by goku

now think of all the chemical reactions that naturally occur on earth that are not organic

i can't think of any

New Finding Hints at Earliest Life on Earth - Science - redOrbit

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by goku

okay i think we're getting somewhere,
now think of all the chemical reactions that naturally occur on earth that are not organic

i can't think of any

after billions of years the planet would reach a state of zero reactions because everything that could react, reacted

Think again goku, (this is fun) there are plenty of chemical reactions on the earth that are not organic. I don't exactly know why you would think there is not and why this would be important but, lots of new chemical energy sources are created all the time by exposure of the crust to the molten core of the earth. The core of the earth (and it's mantle) are kept very hot (hotter than the surface of the sun at the Earths core) by radioactive decay (possibly even a natural nuclear reactor at the earths core). This radioactivity drives volcanism and other types of processes that create ever larger amounts of energy containing chemicals that life can use for energy to grow and multiply. Combine this with energy from the sun and you have what is essentially a limitless source of chemical energy for life to exploit.

[Overdog]

Yes, I would say it is probably true that the vast majority of chemical reactions that occur in the universe are not organic.

[goku]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

there are plenty of chemical reactions on the earth that are not organic.

can you name one?