Evolution is Fact

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Don't encourage him Freez, I think he questions everything since the flat Earth theory was shown to be false, maybe even that

As Reason somewhat alluded to with his most recent post, goku is (IMO) deserving of more credit than he sometimes receives. He did join Hypography at some time in the past, he does read the posts here, and he does respond. This means that he is learning, and I would posit that he is curious. If he truly didn't care, he likely would never have bothered to created an account.

While his criticisms are not exactly biting, and often seem crass, his posts do give all of us the opportunity to address misunderstandings and bring clarity on these issues... not just to him, but to all of those who may be here reading these posts as members or guests.

I think goku often understands our points, and often learns from our responses, just enjoys feigning ignorance and rattling the hornets nest every so often, but the point remains, he did join this community and he does participate, so in my book that earns him some credit.


With all that said, goku, evolution IS fact and science DOES study many things (strange and useful, alike), and you should either get on board or get the hell out of the way.

[HydrogenBond]

A few days ago I had the urge to Goggle an ID search. I was trying to see what exactly the position was. I just assumed this was going to be a religious angle. One site I found took sort of a scientific angle of ID. Evolution Is Dead!*::*Chronicling the Demise of 19th Century Naturalism*

It wasn't totally religious because most of the topics had to do with science data which refuted the more traditional statistical approach to evolution and mutations. The premise appeared to be an ID angle but in the sense of something that should be explainable with cause and affect. For example:

Chapter 19: POSTDARWINISM
"Another molecular biologist, Barry Hall, published results which not only confirmed Cairns's claims but laid on the table startling additional evidence of direct mutation in nature. Hall found that his cultures of E. coli would produce needed mutations at a rate about 100 million times greater than would be statistically expected if they came by chance. Furthermore, when he dissected the genes of these mutated bacteria by sequencing them, he found mutations in no areas other than the one where there was selection pressure.

Their ID position is not against evolution, but against random evolution, with selective pressure able to get very specific on the genes. They call it Intelligent Design, in the loose sense of cause and affect. The logical basis of the cause and affect is not addressed since the science is not there, yet, to make this connection. I try to use hydrogen bonding to make that connection. The religious angle sort of runs with this type of experimental observation and substitutes God for what could be a totally logically cause and affect relationship subject to science investigation. It is almost like the religious ID activism keeps this science ID lumped with religious ID so it never gets the same play. This appears like politics as usual.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

It is almost like the religious ID activism keeps this science ID lumped with religious ID so it never gets the same play.

Try to see them differently if you can but keep one thing in mind, design of any kind requires a designer by definition. If such a designer does exist then what designed the designer....ad infinitum....

[christian_george]

I strongly disbelieve in evolution. I am a Roman Catholic and I staunchly believe that God is the person behind all this things in the world. Evolution cannot even explain why the organisms we see in microscope move!

[Essay]

Originally Posted by christian_george

I strongly disbelieve in evolution. I am a Roman Catholic and I staunchly believe that God is the person behind all this things in the world. Evolution cannot even explain why the organisms we see in microscope move!

"...that God is the person..." ...very anthropomorphically stated. Was that intentional?

Hasn't it been clearly stated that the Catholic Church has no problem with Evolution?

Book TV - Chance or Purpose: Creation, Evolution, and a Rational Faith

Alex García-Rivera, “Endless Forms most Beautiful”
Cardinal Schönborn argues that science and religion are not incompatible and that dogmatism on either side is unsupportable. He spoke at an event hosted by the Dominican School of Philosophy and Theology in Berkeley, California.

In the Beginning is an annotated version of a 4-homily series delivered by Joseph Ratzinger (now the Pope) in Munich (1981). Subtitled A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall, the book was published in Germany in 1985 and is now available in English translation. This speaks to the Catholic understanding of evolution.

btw, Welcome to the fora; a great place to teach and learn.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by christian_george

I strongly disbelieve in evolution. I am a Roman Catholic and I staunchly believe that God is the person behind all this things in the world. Evolution cannot even explain why the organisms we see in microscope move!

Well, obviously you have a well rounded science education. I guess everyone has to start somewhere. Actually, through science we have a very clear understanding of how organisms of all different sizes move. If you're at all interested, here's a basic wiki article on microorganisms. It's a good place to start.

You know, if it weren't for science, you wouldn't even be able to look at an organism in a microscope.

What exactly is the Roman Catholic explanation for why microscopic organisms move?

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by C1ay

Try to see them differently if you can but keep one thing in mind, design of any kind requires a designer by definition. If such a designer does exist then what designed the designer....ad infinitum....

I understand the point, but the fact is that man has become a designer. In fact man has been a designer for thousands of years. First by using selective breeding to domesticate animals to agricultural purposes and for hunting (look at all the breeds of dogs). And more recently through genetic engineering. There are plants and organisms that exist today only due to the intelligent design of man. Intelligent design does not need to imply divinity; only persistence.

I personally believe that evolution is the most solid of sciences. But like everything there is more and more detail to be learned no matter how much we think we already know. In 100 years who knows what we may be capable of, and what strange things will be roaming the earth that will only exist as a result of mankind's intelligence driven design.

Bill

[goku]

Originally Posted by REASON

You know, if it weren't for science, you wouldn't even be able to look at an organism in a microscope.

i think that way of thinking is more and more common these days,
and that makes me wonder if the person that invented the microscope took a science class on how to invent a microscope?

if it wasn't for science that's great

[goku]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

evolution is fact.

no it ant!

if you tell a lie loud enough and long enough the people will believe it
-hitler

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by goku

i think that way of thinking is more and more common these days,
and that makes me wonder if the person that invented the microscope took a science class on how to invent a microscope?

if it wasn't for science that's great

One thing is for sure goku, he didn't figure out how to build a microscope in bible study class. To invent something takes real intelligence and creativity, two things you lack completely. Like most religious people you would rather be told what to think, how to think, and never to question either one on your own. To invent something really new means you have to take ideas from widely separated areas of knowledge and bring them together in a unique way. Often you have to resist the thinking of the everyone else. If not for science and the people who use it to invent you would still be sitting naked in a cave wondering where your next meal is coming from.