Aquarium keeping natural/tecnological

[Moontanman]

If this is the wrong place for this thread feel free to move it. I would like to start a thread to discuss aquarium keeping in all it's varieties. I prefer what I call semi-natural aquariums in both marine and freshwater versions. In freshwater I use an over flow into a sump where I grow plants to clear out the water. I also keep numerous invertebrates in the sump so they can reproduce and create plankton fro the fish. I keep small to tiny fish and crustaceans in my tanks. I like to see large aquariums with populations of small animals so they can at least have a chance of acting as natural as possible. I also grow swamp trees in my aquariums, bald cypress, water tupelo, swamp apple and similar trees. I follow a similar pattern in marine aquaria as well. I do not mechanically filter any of my permanent aquariums.

[freeztar]

This thread is long overdue, so I'm glad you started it MM.

I'm still waiting on photos of the bald cypress and tupelo (bonsais) you have growing.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can add much to the thread, but I'll follow it with interest.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by freeztar

This thread is long overdue, so I'm glad you started it MM.

I'm still waiting on photos of the bald cypress and tupelo (bonsais) you have growing.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can add much to the thread, but I'll follow it with interest.

If I get my scanner hooked back up before I get too old to care I'll see what I can do about the pictures, to be honest I know I have a lot of aquarium pictures but I'm not completly sure I have any of the cypress bonsia. Sad to say my bonsia didn't make it when I moved. This is the second time I have lost all my trees. the first time was when I got a new dog who went out and pulled all my swamp rees out of my ponds and chewed them up. this time I had to pull them out of my aquariums and put them in buckets but they were ignored too long (I know, beat me with a stick) and they dried up. New ones will be grown but I hate to loose trees. Sadly I'm not much for taking pictures but if their is enough interest I'll try to document the growth of a new batch of cypress. It does take about five years to get a good one going from seeds but I can harvest trees from an area where they will be cut down by developement and get ahead of the game. I am anxious to get this going, I have a lot of things I do with aquariums I think people will really be interested in trying.

[Essay]

Keep at it, MTM....

The pictures in my mind are good enough for now....

[Moontanman]

I will start out by explaining the steps I take to set up an aquarium (but not all at once)

#1. First you have to have an idea of what type of aquarium you want to set up. Big fish, little fish, do you want to mimic a complete ecosystem or do you want a totally artificial tank with florescent pink gravel? For me the eco-mimic is the only way to go. To set up a real ecosystem I would have to rip out the side of my house, possibly even reorient my house in relation to the sun so lets not get too far into fantasy land
#2. I like to build my own aquaria to match both the space available and the use I intend to put the aquarium to. Right now I have an existing 125 gallon tank I built 23 years ago that is still in good shape.
#3. Decide on how you plan to filter the water. I use a 55 gallon sump with a five gallon pump container. I plan to grow a dense cover of Azzola carolinias in the sump and stock it with dwarf crayfish, ghost shrimp, amphipods, isopods, cyclops, daphnia, and clams.
#4. Plan ahead for what you want the tank to look like. I plan to glue lava rock to the back of the tank to make a porous rock wall that will serve both as a back drop and growing place for creeping plants but also a refugium for tiny crustaceans so that they can hide from the fish. It's important to give tiny animals a place to hide and reproduce. I often start months or even years in advance by picking up small stones, drift wood or even aging green wood when I find pieces that are hollow or other wise interesting in shape or color. I plan to use black sugar sized sand (Tahitian Moon Sand) I have been collecting rock from various places and I have several pieces of water worn coal, drift wood, a bright white piece of solidified weathered polyester polymer. (very cool looking)

I know this seems complex but it's really only wordy, more later on. (and you thought you were an aquarium fanatic) Since I do much of this stuff on an ongoing basis it's not difficult for me to have a supply of Rocks, drift wood, and other things already at hand. many pet shops sell rocks and wood but I like to know where very peice came from OC for sure!

[Ahmabeliever]

Your methods are both excellent and inspiring.

I run aquaponics in aquariums and a small pond I have. My method is to provide variety with plants and aquatic life as well but I do not have the range of critters I'd like, one of the problems being habitat, which you so wisely point out should go into the planning stage, the other being acquiring them.

The pond is 600 litres with another 200 litres in the system comprised mainly of ebb and flow beds. The pond only has goldfish and guppies, all the shrimp and snails got eaten. I'll be adding some small eels soon. Pond also has a tropical lily gifted from a friend that adds lots of shade in Summer and dissapears in winter, I like it!

The water is pumped with a 2400 lph pump into garden beds, a few types, mainly scoria (lava rock). I have 3 types tomatoes, capsicum, chillies, cucumbers, peas, 3 types basil, 2 types thyme, stevia, parsley, italian parsley, oregano, tarragon, chives, spring onions, sage and watercress growing in the beds. Worms live in the beds and consume leaf debris, solid wastes and root matter of plants I remove.

All of this situated in a greenhouse with a recycled (crazy) concrete floor to add to the thermal stability of all that water. Running close to 18 months now, so far so good, no cleaning required, no heating required though I'd like solar the site doesn't warrant it. Few plumbing hiccups I'm a learner. I like to call these instances 'involuntary water changes'.

Scaled this concept down into an aquarium (years before the greenhouse). Small fish and small critters make less mess and so I placed a garden the same size as a fish tank above the tank and after I got it worked out it runs as sweet and clean as the big ones. All insulated in a nice looking wooden cabinet with a tropical tank heater.

Screwed it up for about 12 months but ironed it out. Basically, the inputs of food must be matched by the outputs of plants, and the more creatures recycling the food and waste products, the cleaner it runs. Age just improves the system. I'm selling them soon and recommending a partial water change annually just for my peace of mind.

Pretty cocky I know, I've spent 7 years stuying these and their prototypes I worked hard at it for a long time because I don't ever want to sell crap to anyone, these things kick ass!

Feed the fish, top the water, eat the salad and herbs. Mmmm herbs.

After I'd made a couple of these things and thought I was pretty clever (so what's new) I met a scientist who had systems much like moontanmans and I was way impressed. Showed me all sorts of insects he was raising on wastes and then after seeing about 50 aquariums with fish that were till then only photos to me we took a trip around acres of ponds he's sculpted into existing wetlands where he spawns many thousands of rare native fish.

Picked a few tips up there I visit him with a notebook now

I like to run 'clean systems', meaning, I do not have to clean anything myself.

Natural systems seem by far the easiest, for me, and aquaponics fits in nicely as I love gardening and fresh food too. NZ laws suck concerning fish species I'm allowed, I want to raise fish I can eat as well, only get the eels cos I've got mates...

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Ahmabeliever

Your methods are both excellent and inspiring.

I run aquaponics in aquariums and a small pond I have. My method is to provide variety with plants and aquatic life as well but I do not have the range of critters I'd like, one of the problems being habitat, which you so wisely point out should go into the planning stage, the other being acquiring them.

The pond is 600 litres with another 200 litres in the system comprised mainly of ebb and flow beds. The pond only has goldfish and guppies, all the shrimp and snails got eaten. I'll be adding some small eels soon. Pond also has a tropical lily gifted from a friend that adds lots of shade in Summer and dissapears in winter, I like it!

The water is pumped with a 2400 lph pump into garden beds, a few types, mainly scoria (lava rock). I have 3 types tomatoes, capsicum, chillies, cucumbers, peas, 3 types basil, 2 types thyme, stevia, parsley, italian parsley, oregano, tarragon, chives, spring onions, sage and watercress growing in the beds. Worms live in the beds and consume leaf debris, solid wastes and root matter of plants I remove.

All of this situated in a greenhouse with a recycled (crazy) concrete floor to add to the thermal stability of all that water. Running close to 18 months now, so far so good, no cleaning required, no heating required though I'd like solar the site doesn't warrant it. Few plumbing hiccups I'm a learner. I like to call these instances 'involuntary water changes'.

Scaled this concept down into an aquarium (years before the greenhouse). Small fish and small critters make less mess and so I placed a garden the same size as a fish tank above the tank and after I got it worked out it runs as sweet and clean as the big ones. All insulated in a nice looking wooden cabinet with a tropical tank heater.

Screwed it up for about 12 months but ironed it out. Basically, the inputs of food must be matched by the outputs of plants, and the more creatures recycling the food and waste products, the cleaner it runs. Age just improves the system. I'm selling them soon and recommending a partial water change annually just for my peace of mind.

Pretty cocky I know, I've spent 7 years stuying these and their prototypes I worked hard at it for a long time because I don't ever want to sell crap to anyone, these things kick ass!

Feed the fish, top the water, eat the salad and herbs. Mmmm herbs.

After I'd made a couple of these things and thought I was pretty clever (so what's new) I met a scientist who had systems much like moontanmans and I was way impressed. Showed me all sorts of insects he was raising on wastes and then after seeing about 50 aquariums with fish that were till then only photos to me we took a trip around acres of ponds he's sculpted into existing wetlands where he spawns many thousands of rare native fish.

Picked a few tips up there I visit him with a notebook now

I like to run 'clean systems', meaning, I do not have to clean anything myself.

Natural systems seem by far the easiest, for me, and aquaponics fits in nicely as I love gardening and fresh food too. NZ laws suck concerning fish species I'm allowed, I want to raise fish I can eat as well, only get the eels cos I've got mates...

From my point of veiw you are lucky in teh invert departmen. I know you guys have crayfish and ghost shrimp. Amphipods and isopods are pretty much global so i know you have them. You also have the wolrds only freshwater spider crab there as well!
Your system is interesting, I am limited to space now days but if i had my greenhouse again I would give it a try. I have access to many rare species from where I live. the laws here are slack to a great extent and I get to collect with the State marine resources people and they take to places where some really unusual things live. I was around when a new species of dwarf mudpuppy was being studied and I got several specimens. Small, pink, and easy to keep. I'll send more about the set up of my tank later today.

[Tormod]

This is an excellent topic for a social group IMHO. Soon it will be possible to have dedicated forums per group as well (if things go as I plan).

I used to have an aquarium but managed to kill all the fish so I classify myself as a complete n00b when it comes to keeping live animals of any kind.

[Ahmabeliever]

You aint a real fish keeper till you've killed a few fish.

I have about 50 ghost shrimp - paratya. In a barrel with some compost and leaves and a couple of guppies to keep mossies out. I top the water with rainwater and use the barrel for more thermal mass in the greenhouse and to water various pot plants so a portion gets changed out. Easy to keep but they aren't easy to breed needing a higher salinity than I'm willing to give my plants. Might have another crack at it one day in a tank.

Few of these snails too. Fine in NZ conditions...

Attack of the clones

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Ahmabeliever

You aint a real fish keeper till you've killed a few fish.

I have about 50 ghost shrimp - paratya. In a barrel with some compost and leaves and a couple of guppies to keep mossies out. I top the water with rainwater and use the barrel for more thermal mass in the greenhouse and to water various pot plants so a portion gets changed out. Easy to keep but they aren't easy to breed needing a higher salinity than I'm willing to give my plants. Might have another crack at it one day in a tank.

Few of these snails too. Fine in NZ conditions...

Attack of the clones

The ghost shrimp I have live in very soft black water habitats. Either there are several different species or several differnt versions of the same species.