[Moontanman]

What species we know of today show promise for evolving into the another intelligent species after humans have left the Earth? My favorite along these lines is the Meercat, these lovable animals would seem to be poised to follow in the foot steps of our own species. Any other ideas?

[Moontanman]

Another non primate that seems to on the begining of the path towards possible tool using, language, and culture is the giant river otter.

[freeztar]

What about dolphins?

They would have to make the leap to land, but considering the rate in which the oceans are being depleted, they may be forced to.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by freeztar

What about dolphins?

They would have to make the leap to land, but considering the rate in which the oceans are being depleted, they may be forced to.

Actually I hadn't thought of cetaceans in this context. I recently read where cetaceans already have a considerable amount of culture and possibly even oral tradition. I'm not sure if cetaceans will ever really be technological and although it may be wrong to limit intelligence by using technology as a prerequisite I was when I started this thread thinking of a tool using technological type intelligence. Of course real intelligence doesn't necessarily mean tools but I think a member of SETI said it best when asked how could they judge intelligence if they found it and she replied the only prerequisite we look for is the ability to make a radio telescope, nothing else matters in our context (paraphrasing)

[modest]

Originally Posted by freeztar

What about dolphins?

I like the Encephalization way of determining intelligence. It leaves out the impressions or intuitions that we have about animals that probably throw off this kind of thing. The method also gives dolphins the credit they deserve. I think dolphins are very close to human-like intelligence (ie being able to pass on and build knowledge from generation to generation).

Brain and Body Size... and Intelligence
has a good description of the 'allometry' encephalization method. I won't describe it here, but the results are:

Human          7.44  Cat    1.00
Dolphin        5.31  Horse  0.86
Chimpanzee     2.49  Sheep  0.81
Rhesus Monkey  2.09  Mouse  0.50
Elephant       1.87  Rat    0.40
Whale          1.76  Rabbit 0.40
Dog            1.17

where '1.0' represents average mammalian intelligence. Cool stuff.

-modest

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by modest

I like the Encephalization way of determining intelligence. It leaves out the impressions or intuitions that we have about animals that probably throw off this kind of thing. The method also gives dolphins the credit they deserve. I think dolphins are very close to human-like intelligence (ie being able to pass on and build knowledge from generation to generation).

Brain and Body Size... and Intelligence
has a good description of the 'allometry' encephalization method. I won't describe it here, but the results are:

Human          7.44  Cat    1.00
Dolphin        5.31  Horse  0.86
Chimpanzee     2.49  Sheep  0.81
Rhesus Monkey  2.09  Mouse  0.50
Elephant       1.87  Rat    0.40
Whale          1.76  Rabbit 0.40
Dog            1.17

where '1.0' represents average mammalian intelligence. Cool stuff.

-modest

I wonder what this says about the elephant nose fish, it's brain to body mass is higher than a human. Humans brains amke up some 2.3% of our body by weight and use 20% of our oxygen intake. The elephant nose fish fish has a brain to body weight of 3.1 percent of it's total body mass and it's brian uses up some 60% of it's oxygen intake!

[Moontanman]

For the sake of argument lets say "Future Evolution of Tool Using Intelligences" while I really like the debate about intelligence of whales (I think they just might be smarter than us in some ways) if a creature cannot make and use tools to manipulate it's environment it's intelligence will not be able to build a technological civilization and never go to the stars or have any real impact on the universe outside it's own mind. I was thinking about another intelligence we could watch or guide into the future of space travel and the universe. I genuinely think that any intelligence will eventually die out or advance toward leaving the Earth for space. Only tool using intelligences have the option of the latter. Extinction or expansion, everything leads to one or the other.

[InfiniteNow]

If you limit it to the use of tools, then I'll say Crows. Check this out:

TED | Talks | Joshua Klein: The amazing intelligence of crows (video)




Seriously. Wow.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

I wonder what this says about the elephant nose fish, it's brain to body mass is higher than a human. Humans brains amke up some 2.3% of our body by weight and use 20% of our oxygen intake. The elephant nose fish fish has a brain to body weight of 3.1 percent of it's total body mass and it's brian uses up some 60% of it's oxygen intake!

It looks like from the equation on the web page it would end up at about 2.4. I had to guess its body mass - it's not a simple ratio but depends on total mass. This is because smaller animals tend to have a larger brain to body mass ratio without an appreciable intelligence advantage. However, 2.4 is no doubt wrong as the page says the equation is limited to mammals - I assume there are different constants involved with reptiles, fish, amphibians, birds, etc. It doesn't look like it gives the appropriate equation for any but mammals.

On the original topic, I'm afraid the life form destined to take over after our demise would have to be artificially intelligent robots

-modest

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by modest

It looks like from the equation on the web page it would end up at about 2.4. I had to guess its body mass - it's not a simple ratio but depends on total mass. This is because smaller animals tend to have a larger brain to body mass ratio without an appreciable intelligence advantage. However, 2.4 is no doubt wrong as the page says the equation is limited to mammals - I assume there are different constants involved with reptiles, fish, amphibians, birds, etc. It doesn't look like it gives the appropriate equation for any but mammals.

On the original topic, I'm afraid the life form destined to take over after our demise would have to be artificially intelligent robots

-modest

I hope you are wrong about robots, it would be shame if all we eventually aspire to is replaced by robots with no real motivation to do anything but exist and maybe not even that. what weight did you ascribe the fish? The particular species referred to can weigh as much as a pound but the brain size is gigantic compared to other fish.