Abiogenesis and the evolution of complex life

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

On the chemical cellular level I believe the above references we have given would suffice as the best evidence we have for how life emerged from non life. fascinating indeed. I still think there are quantum coherent molecular structures involved that form around incoming information outside these loops, sunlight-chlorophyll for example, and also geometric principles involved, The chemical factory needs to have an architecture. Environmental cycles would play the first simple rhythms of adaptation. This would signal the start of the evolutionary process.

To me these types of evolutionary constraints are also fascinating aspects of life. The forms. After all consider I am a sculptor. I take gemstones and form them into animals. Form and function develop hand in hand. The form is not addressed in evolution theory as much as I would like.

I agree, all these chemical reactions do indeed form under the right conditions but where did the form of a cell come from? shake up olive oil and vinegar and see the form! Yes oil when mixed with water or fluids containing mostly water form very tiny but stable bubbles. these bubbles are very complex, semipermeable, and consist of a bubble of water surrounded by a membrane of hydrocarbon molecules. these tiny containers could be the first times chemical reactions were isolated from the general "broth" of chemical reactions and this concentration suggests how chemical reactions become cells. they even split into new cells when the proteans dissolved in the water inside get to be numerous enough. free floating RNA formed by the same reactions that form both eh replicating proteans and the chemical cycles could have invaded these cells and brought about synthesis of More RNA. eventually these two mechanisms would have been the basis of evolution and real life as we think of it.

[Pyrotex]

Whattsa "quantum coherent molecular structure"?

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

Whattsa "quantum coherent molecular structure"?

DNA for one, the double helix. cones in the eyes, , microtubules in the nerurons of the brain, to name a few.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

Whattsa "quantum coherent molecular structure"?

Simply put; A persistent complex structure that can conduct information in a quantum wave form that also has its origins from that wave form, therefore only persist because of it. This definition is mine, but it is descriptive one.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Simply put; A persistent complex structure that can conduct information in a quantum wave form that also has its origins from that wave form, therefore only persist because of it.

This went right over my head. Can you elaborate?

This definition is mine, but it is descriptive one.

It seems that the phrase is yours as well since a google search turned up zero results for the phrase.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by freeztar

This went right over my head. Can you elaborate?



It seems that the phrase is yours as well since a google search turned up zero results for the phrase.

To give a good explanation I would need to broaden the definition of quantum mechanics. A living organism is not only circular chemical functions that are collapsed to a finite point, but life also exhibits forms, movements and functions that were, as were the simple chemical reactive cycles, cycles of the environment.
Cycles of energy and rhythms of energy, These elements were the dynamical aspects. A creative tension between dualities, on both the micro-level and macro-level.

"Morphology is not only a study of material things and of the forms of material things, but has its dynamical aspect ... in terms of force, of the operations of energy. This is a great theme. Boltzmann, writing in 1886 on the second law of thermodynamics, declared that available energy was the main object at stake in the struggle for existence and the evolution of the world" D'Arcy Thompson, On Growth and Form, 1917
..to (in)form buildings with thematic meaning, they must convey a gestalt, the whole must be more than the sum of the parts, and there must also be an ambiguity and paradox immanent within that gestalt, as a tension. (And quoting Heckscher on composition...) It is the taut composition which contains contrapuntal relationships, equal combinations, inflected fragments, and acknowledged duality's. It is the unity which maintains, but only just maintains, a control over the clashing elements which compose it. Chaos is very near, its nearness, but its avoidance, gives ...force" Robert Venturi, Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture, 1966

[InfiniteNow]

Ah. Yes. Why use actual physics when you can change the existing and accepted definitions to meet your own personal fluffy non-measurable metaphysics.

An explanation which must redefine the words used in said explanation is not a good explanation at all.



Let me tell you what I'm talking about when I mention the ground state of an electron. I am actually talking about rainbows and how they touch the ground in two places, where a pot of gold resides at each connection point. Don't you see! It's quite simple, really.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Ah. Yes. Why use actual physics when you can change the existing and accepted definitions to meet your own personal fluffy non-measurable metaphysics.

An explanation which must redefine the words used in said explanation is not a good explanation at all.



Let me tell you what I'm talking about when I mention the ground state of an electron. I am actually talking about rainbows and how they touch the ground in two places, where a pot of gold resides at each connection point. Don't you see! It's quite simple, really.

I said “broaden” to include it in life functions, as not purely chemical. I did not say change.

[Thunderbird]

When you start to observe and measure calculate a new aspect of life functions you need to acknowledge the fact that other system exist. System that are defined with other terms, detected and measured in other ways, however before that you need to perceive this systems as a quality, then you can move to the reducing these systems into specific aspect of measuring quantities and variables.

This is why it would be useless for me to try to breach the subject of biology and how it relates quantum mechanics, without first giving a broad description that can be perceived and understood. QM is not metaphysics, and it has aspects that can be observed on the biological level.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

QM is not metaphysics, and it has aspects that can be observed on the biological level.

It sounds like you are talking about Quantum Biology. Is this correct?