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06-30-2008
|  | Astounding Vision | | 2 Many Bugs Champion! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: South Eastern North Carolina, Cape Fear Region
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| | | Neanderthals, how human were they?
__________________ Michael
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06-30-2008
|  | Explaining |  Sponsor | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia
Posts: 548
| | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? I think if they were alive today it would probably be a question the court's would have to decide. I read a story once about a man who had "created" a species of living creatures that, to outward appearances looked human, but were not legally human, and the man then "murdered" one of them as a way of forcing the legal system to recognize them as "human". | 
06-30-2008
|  | Understanding | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 304
| | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? Neanderthal man is classified as homo sapiens. In fact, if you dressed one up and put him on a crowded sidewalk, nobody would give him a second look.
__________________ "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
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06-30-2008
|  | Wedding Planner |  Sponsor | | | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus Neanderthal man is classified as homo sapiens. In fact, if you dressed one up and put him on a crowded sidewalk, nobody would give him a second look. | Have a look here: Neanderthal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote: |
Neandertal, was a species of the Homo genus (Homo neanderthalensis or Homo sapiens neanderthalensis)[1] which inhabited Europe and parts of western and central Asia. The first proto-Neanderthal traits appeared in Europe as early as 350-500 thousand years ago.[2] By 130,000 years ago, complete Neanderthal characteristics had appeared and by 50,000 years ago, Neanderthals disappeared from Asia, although they did not reach extinction in Europe until 30,000 years ago.
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06-30-2008
|  | Creating | | Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: U.S. Midwest
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| | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus Neanderthal man is classified as homo sapiens. In fact, if you dressed one up and put him on a crowded sidewalk, nobody would give him a second look. | Probably would warrant a second look: -source
I've also wondered why we assume they were not as bright as modern man. Their brain was bigger and they've been found with well-made tools and jewelry. Yet most of what I see on TV and the like is about how stupid they were (compared to us) and that's why the died off.
~modest
Last edited by modest; 06-30-2008 at 03:34 PM.
Reason: source
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07-01-2008
|  | Explaining |  Sponsor | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia
Posts: 548
| | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? Quote:
Originally Posted by modest I've also wondered why we assume they were not as bright as modern man. | Yes, there does seem to be that cultural association <--Neanderthal = Caveman = Not Very Intelligent-->
"It's so easy even a caveman could do it..."
(I hate those commercials.)
I'm not sure how or when this association became firmly established in popular culture, but no doubt Hollywood had a lot to do with it.
I note however that you said "not as bright" and ""stupid", and never said "not as intelligent".
I'm curious about your choice of words, does "not as bright" mean something different to you than "not as intelligent" ? | 
07-01-2008
|  | Holy cow! | | Join Date: May 2005 Location: Hartbeespoort, South Africa
Posts: 4,654
| | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? We can't say Neanderthallers were as intelligent or more intelligent as modern humans, regardless of brain size. If intelligence was defined by brain size, then elephants and whales would rule. I do think, however, that contact with Neanderthals could have given rise to the (initially oral)mythologies of "back when Giants walked the Earth", as found in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible - a document underwritten by both Islam and Judaism.
Interesting, nonetheless...
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07-01-2008
|  | Explaining |  Sponsor | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Virginia
Posts: 548
| | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerseun We can't say Neanderthallers were as intelligent or more intelligent as modern humans, regardless of brain size. If intelligence was defined by brain size, then elephants and whales would rule. | Yes, I agree. The definition of "Intelligence" is so fuzzy that I try to avoid using the word. (and I suspect Modest did not use it intentionally).
But the word "bright", is often a synonym for "intelligent".
I would guess that Neanderthal Man's extinction had very little to do with how bright they were. But I think Modest was wondering why there seems to be this general assumption.... | 
07-01-2008
|  | Understanding | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 304
| | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerseun We can't say Neanderthallers were as intelligent or more intelligent as modern humans, regardless of brain size. If intelligence was defined by brain size, then elephants and whales would rule. I do think, however, that contact with Neanderthals could have given rise to the (initially oral)mythologies of "back when Giants walked the Earth", as found in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible - a document underwritten by both Islam and Judaism.
Interesting, nonetheless... | At at an average height of 5'5" (comparable to the height of modern humans of the time), they would hardly be thought of as "giants".
__________________ "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scruntiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone | 
07-01-2008
|  | Astounding Vision | | 2 Many Bugs Champion! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: South Eastern North Carolina, Cape Fear Region
Posts: 3,161
| | | Re: Neanderthals, how human were they? Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus At at an average height of 5'5" (comparable to the height of modern humans of the time), they would hardly be thought of as "giants". | Studies of the bones and the scars left by muscle and tendon attachments suggest very strongly that Neanderthals would have been many times as strong as a human. a normal Neanderthal would have made a human body builder look like a skinny wimp. His arms would have been bigger than a well developed humans legs. Such a strong man would have through retelling of twice told tales been easily distorted into giants as the only explanation of how they could be so much stronger than a human, just like reports of gorillas were stretched until gorillas reached monstrous proportions until the were discovered as the gentile vegetarian creatures they really are. .
__________________ Michael
Nuclear is the only real option! http://www.nuclearspace.com/Liberty_ship_menupg.aspx
Who died and left you in charge? Captain Bipto!
The early bird might get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese!
Life is the poetry of the universe.
Love is the poetry of life.
Over heard from a three year old, "Daddy why do my toes get sticky when I eat strawberry jam?"
Never wrestle a troll. You both get dirty and the troll likes it |  | |
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