Round Two: God vs. Darwin

[TeleMad]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

Ergo, if you believe in gradualism, you see gradualism. If you believe in puncuated equilibrium, you see punctuated equilibrium.

What, you don't give me any recognition for my having taught you just a couple of days ago the difference between gradualism and punctuated equilibrium?

I may stop teaching you science if you don't start giving credit where credit is due :-)

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by TeleMad

What, you don't give me any recognition for my having taught you just a couple of days ago the difference between gradualism and punctuated equilibrium?

I may stop teaching you science if you don't start giving credit where credit is due :-)

Please, stop..

[TeleMad]

Originally Posted by bumab

I saw a Biblical scholar proclaim all alcohol is evil, and, using historical context, "prove" that Jesus turned water into non-alcoholic wine.

How could God consider alcohol evil? He condoned its use for two daughters to rape their father multiple times.

God saved Lot and his two daughters from Sodom and Gommorha (after a human convinced God to spare some people ... seems both humans and Satan can make God do what they want with a little nudging ... just as Job). Just a few verses after the Lot family is saved, the daughters plot to liquor up old Lot - their father - and have sex with him to get pregnant. The first daughter gets him hammered and then she gets nailed :-) Then the next night, they decide to get their old poppa sh*tfaced again and the other daughter rapes him. Both daughters end up pregnant from their father.

Now God is all-knowing and knew this was going to happen, yet he saved the daughters. So apparently God doesn't disapprove of alcohol ... or incest ... or rape.

[TeleMad]

God sent angels to save Lot and his daughters, specifically, from God's coming destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah. God destroyed the cities in Genesis 19:23. Just a few verses later, in Genesis 19:31, we see Lot's daughters plotting to get their father so drunk that they can have sex with him and get pregnant.

God can see the future, so He must have known that the daughters were just going to turn around, after being saved, and drug and rape their father. It is rape when you get someone too drunk to know what’s happening in order to have sex with them.

And the Biblical soap opera is quite, well, soap-opera-ish. They don’t plot and carry out their incestuous rape once, but twice. Here are the verses.

NIV Bible:
One day the older daughter said to the younger,

“Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let’s get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father”.

That night, they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. The next day the older daughter said to the younger,

“Last night I lay with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.”

So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.

Surely we all remember this, right? After all, weren't we all taught as children in Sunday school about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Lot, and how his wife turned into a pillar of salt because she looked back? Oh yeah, that's right. For some odd reason Sunday schools always stop at around verse 26, where Lot's wife gets turned into a pillar of salt. They don't bother to finish the story of Lot and his daughters that were saved by God, even though it's only a few more versus. I wonder why? Could it be because of the back-to-back rapes? Could it be because of the two instances of incest? Could it be because two daughters get pregnant from their father?

The Bible, what a wonderful book!

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by TeleMad

How could God consider alcohol evil? He condoned its use for two daughters to rape their father multiple times....

Hmmm. And you see evidence here that God condoned this? Creative.

[TeleMad]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

Hmmm. And you see evidence here that God condoned this? Creative.

Read it again. It's simple logic. God knew the girls would drug and rape their father if he saved them. He already had the daughters scheduled to be wiped out, and if He let that happen, the incest, and drugging, and rape wouldn't have occurred. But he chose to save them, knowing that they were going to turn right around and booze up their father and rape him. Yep, God condoned it alright. It was God's own action that made it possible!

[TeleMad]

Of course there’s always the beautiful story of Job! You all remember that one, right? It’s where Satan talks God into (hey, wait a minute!) letting him kill Job’s servants and family, as well as flocks of animals. Why? To see if Job will still love God. Man, what an ego God has. Pretty easy to manipulate too.

Then the Lord said to Satan,

“Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

“Does Job fear God for nothing?”, Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
(NIC Bible)

Now with God’s permission, Satan sets about killing Job’s sheep and oxen. Oh, and Satan also kills people – Job’s servants. Oh, and Satan – having obtained God’s okay – also kills Job’s children!!! What a loving God!!!

But it doesn’t end there.

Then the Lord said to Satan,

“Have you considered my servant Job? … And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

“Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”

So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head.
(NIV Bible)

So God let Satan talk Him into allowing Satan to first kill Job’s livestock, servants, and children; and then to later talk Him into allowing Satan to put Job in a hell of a lot of physical pain. Wow, what a loving God!!!

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by TeleMad

Read it again. It's simple logic..... It was God's own action that made it possible!

If you are going to impute that all human behaviors are condoned by God (since in your example, His omnicience confirms approval), you are missing a couple of key elements in Christian dogma.

[TeleMad]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

If you are going to impute that all human behaviors are condoned by God (since in your example, His omnicience confirms approval), you are missing a couple of key elements in Christian dogma.

Nope, not at all what I said or implied. Learn to read...learn to think ... learn to understand.

[Biochemist]

But he chose to save them, knowing that they were going to turn right around and booze up their father and rape him. Yep, God condoned it alright. It was God's own action that made it possible!

I did read it. You said God condoned because He knew in advance what would happen. This was your "simple" logic. I agree the logic is simple.

Just not consistent.