Is homosexuality unnatural?

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

I am not sure if animal analogies for human is the best way to define human behavior.

I agree, so it's sure a good thing that I wasn't doing that. As I thought was painfully obvious, I was rebutting the ridiculous claim that homosexuality is unnatural, I was not arguing for a specific type of human behavior being accepted for the sole reason that "animals do it too."

As for the rest of your post, well, it's completely irrelevant to my position and based on a strawman, so I ignored it.


EDIT: However, I will comment that many of your premises are cartoonishly misguided. For example, if homosexuality were not able to be selected it would have been removed from the gene pool generations ago... Yet you, despite the hundreds of times you've been corrected on the process of evolution at this site and others, continue to argue based on bad misinterpretations of the actual process. Evolution is about much more than passing on just your own genes. I encourage you to review the grandmother hypothesis, for example.




Finally... this just warrants being shown again proudly.

Oh yeah... She IS holding a bow. How 'bout that? I'd never have known had they not typed it.

[Moontanman]

I have to admit I didn't notice the bow or even her face, I did notice her belly, I am such a perv

[Michaelangelica]

LOL-IN

Christian cure for homosexuality
My name is Katrina Fox and I am a homosexual. As is the case with Alcoholics or Narcotics Anonymous, that admission is apparently the first step in my journey to become straight - according to Living Waters, an international ministry that offers courses to help people who suffer from a range of sexual problems or "brokenness", including same-sex attraction.

Lifematters - LifeAndStyle - theage.com.au

If I was a girl/woman, I would want to be Gay. Women are so much more interesting than men.

[InfiniteNow]

Ah... the loving and accepting embrace of the religious perspective. "Homosexuality is a disease to be cured, a problem to be fixed, a broken desire to be righted."


I wonder how many of the folks who see this as an abomination can tell us all the exact day they chose to be straight.

[Moontanman]

Hate the sin, love the sinner!

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Ah... the loving and accepting embrace of the religious perspective. "Homosexuality is a disease to be cured, a problem to be fixed, a broken desire to be righted."


I wonder how many of the folks who see this as an abomination can tell us all the exact day they chose to be straight.

I hope you are not being $arca$tic about one of our great religion$?

I was interested to read a news item about the fear that the Catholic Church in Canada has that they may go broke/bankrupt because of all the paedophilia legal cases against clergy.

If paedophiles only knew the incredible long-term emotion tumult and lasting psychological harm they do --do you think they would stop?
It really cancels out any good they can do as a priest/teacher etc..

[Moontanman]

Does anyone know if homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament?

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Does anyone know if homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament?

AFAIK, all mentions of sodomy (homosexuality) are in the old testament... specifically Deuteronomy, Kings, and Job, with some in Exodus and Leviticus.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...%20Deuteronomy

BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: Deuteronomy 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24;15:12;22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Job

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by goku

if i didn't know better i'd say that we are bonded, if i'd a said yes you would've said no

I just found this quiet gem when the page loaded at the begging of the thread.
As is said in Oz "I'll Pay that one"
Sex is certainly a big part of bonding.

I wonder how smell influences mate selection, in homosexuals, as it does in heterosexual females? - Choosing a partner most genetically diverse from you.-
There does not seem to be a point to that, if you are homosexual?

It would be interesting to see how many paedophiles were Christian or Christian Clergy (the ones convicted and in jail). A good bit of statistical research for someone?
So then we would know if we could say "Christianity causes buggery" or some such similar.
Where does it say in the Bible or New Testament that we should bugger little children? Perhaps some one got the grammar wrong in the translation of Jesus'
words, "Suffer the little children to come unto Me" or perhaps many clergy are dyslectic

Further, on the Christianity cure thing, I posted this also on a social forum and an avowed follower of the, forgiving, inclusive, gentle philosophy of Jesus Christ had this to say:-

Let It Be Known If You Attack Christians (ME As It Also My NAME) That I Will Come Back At You Harder, i'm sick Of Atheist Shoving Their CRAP Down My & My Freinds Throats.
This Christian Is A Warrior.
Imagine A Bikie Jehovahs witness: Someone Who Knocks On Your Door & Tells You To **** Off... T

alternatively

It is people who are extremist with their views that are a major problem!!
I am a Christian yet I am accepting & respectful of all religions. I am a heterosexual yet I am accepting and respectful of other sexual orientations. I for one do not believe that "Christian" and "warrior" belong together because it is immensely contradictory!! AND, I do try my very best not to judge others, especially in a dergoatory amnner!!!

Christian cure for homosexuality - Care2 News Network

Religion the problem, or people the problem?

The Naturalness of Homosexuality

Homosexuality Is Very Natural
Lets Stop The Lies That Hurt So Many
God Loves All Just As HE Created Them
Why Can't Christians ?

The naturalness of homosexuality completely verifies scripture that says absolutely nothing about what we know as homosexuality today.

The Naturalness of Homosexuality

What is "natural"?
A value judgement?
An issue of morality, ethics, belief, not of science?

to a chemist a chemical he creates in a laboratory that is "nature identical" is therefore 'natural'. Yet we have 'synthetic' nature identical man made, chemicals (e.g. pyrethrins) not working the same as 'natural' ones.

We look to animals because we share a lot of DNA with them and they have taught us alot about ourselves without dismembering or stalking human.
I agree HB direct comparisons/transfers of reserch from animals to humans is fraught.

In compiling past and current research, it has been determined that thousands of identified animal species have demonstrated homosexual behavior. "Homosexuality has been observed in more than 1,500 species, and the phenomenon has been well described for 500 of them," according to Petter Bockman, project coordinator of the University of Oslo's Natural History Museum's exhibition display. "Against Nature?" Let's look at some specific examples.

http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2008/...uality-in.html

What we are talking about?

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

It would be interesting to see how many paedophiles were Christian or Christian Clergy (the ones convicted and in jail). A good bit of statistical research for someone?
So then we would know if we could say "Christianity causes buggery" or some such similar.
Where does it say in the Bible or New Testament that we should bugger little children? Perhaps some one got the grammar wrong in the translation of Jesus'
words, "Suffer the little children to come unto Me" or perhaps many clergy are dyslectic

I did post about this briefly back in October of 2008.


http://hypography.com/forums/theolog...tml#post242567

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

SpringerLink - Journal Article

This article examines associations between self-reported religious affiliations and official offense histories among 111 incarcerated adult male sexual offenders. Four categories of religiosity were devised according to self-reported continuities and discontinuities in life-course religious affiliations: atheists, dropouts, converts, and stayers. ANCOVAs indicated that stayers (those who maintained religious involvement from childhood to adulthood) had more sexual offense convictions, more victims, and younger victims, than other groups. Results challenge assumptions that religious involvement should, as with other crime, serve to deter sexual offending behavior. Results are discussed in terms of social control and situational theories of crime.

I also appreciated Moonman's comments about the simple numbers involved here, how there are more religious people in general, and hence more crimes by said religious people. Something like 80-90% of the country self-identifies with some sort of religion, so it's not surprising that religious are more involved with sexual crimes against children.

However, with that said, many religious teachings attempt to directly suppress our natural sexual urges, and that inhibition tends to lead to more acts committed in order to release those urges. It's like holding a balloon full of air under the water. The harder you press it down, the more forcefully and unexpectedly it pops back to the surface.

Further, all one must do is recall the issues with Catholic priests and child molestation to bring into perspective the significant anchoring effect religiosity has on this data.

And from Essay later that same thread shared a study more relevant to this particular thread:

Disgust, scrupulosity and conservative attitudes about sex: Evidence for a mediational model of homophobia

Journal of Research in Personality, Volume 42, Issue 5, October 2008, Pages 1364-1369

In the present study, core disgust predicted negative attitudes toward homosexuals even after controlling for contamination fear. The effect of core disgust on negative attitudes toward homosexuals was indirect, partially mediated by conservative sexual attitudes and religiosity. The effects of religious principles on negative attitudes toward homosexuals were indirect, via conservative sexual beliefs. These results establish a link between disgust and negative attitudes towards homosexuals that is not fully accounted for by contamination concerns, but rather is partially accounted for by conservative sexual ideology and religiosity.

ScienceDirect - Journal of Research in Personality : Disgust, scrupulosity and conservative attitudes about sex: Evidence for a mediational model of homophobia

It's hard not to just do or think anything you want when you believe that you're being told to hate someone because god (and your infallible book) wants you to. There aren't a lot of logical arguments (if there are any at all) which can overcome a delusion as deep and broad as that.