Have human males past their biological "use-by" date?

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by maddog

I found the link was mangled. Try this one.

Feminism, Evolutionary, What is? or What is Evolutionary Feminism?

[Note: need the "%20"]

maddog

ps: done by a "male" programmer.

thanks very intersting link
Especially

Anne Campbell in her 2002 book, A Mind of Her Own: the evolutionary psychology of wome

"Women have been parodied as the gentle sex in convenient opposition to the belligerent male. Men compete, women do not. Men must compete for sex but what is there for women to compete for?...women must compete for all those requirements that ensure their reproductive success. Competitive reproductive success. When push comes to shove and there is not enough to go around, I am afraid that it must be my progeny, not yours in the next generation. But I will avoid outright violence if I can. Why? Because without me, the chances of my children surviving drop disastrously and offspring survival is the prize that is at stake. Female competition may look different from that of males, but that does not mean that it does not exist. We are competitors - and good ones." P. 310.

and

Always remember:
"Only two species of mammals have ever been observed to form aggressive coalitions against other members of their own species: Chimpanzees and humans. The male of our species has recurrently engaged in warfare over recorded human history, whereas, there is not a single documented case of women forming same-sex coalitions to go to war. " David Buss quoting Tooby and Cosmides (The evolution of war and its cognitive foundations. Institute for Evolutionary Studies, Technical Report #88-1, 1988)

this was cute

Since the female of our species created man because she needed assistance in child rearing,

I guess the female is the default model.

As a male human in a female household I am ashamed by the way many males treat women (Including myself at times). One in four women sexually attacked; one in three copping some violence from a male. Raping babies ?! What is that about-where did it come from? Pedophilia?? What is wrong with the male? These behaviours don't seem to me to be things that fit in with my perceived biological role of human males.

Wars are redundant, wasteful, unnecessary, yet they go on. Dictators let women and children die for power, prestige, ego and money. But the person with the most toys at the end does NOT win the game.

I don't agree that women are MORE aggressive than men. Women can be assertive or aggressive, especially defending their kids. I see men as being MORE aggressive than women. Support for my belief? Do I need it?

[pamela]

Originally Posted by michaelangelica

I don't agree that women are MORE aggressive than men. Women can be assertive or aggressive, especially defending their kids. I see men as being MORE aggressive than women. Support for my belief? Do I need it?

I imagine, that if hard pressed to it, women can and have been extremely aggressive. I believe that as a general rule, most women have a tendency to exhibit their nurturing side. Women either have forgotten or seem to overlook the animal within them. Accepting this, would somehow lower themselves in their mind. I cannot imagine not embracing my carnal nature and allowing myself to be that and all it entails. Why should the view one oneself be so chained to what is calm, caring and intelligent.Why does passion have to be about love, when infact, it is the raw energy of what drives us to procreate and insure the survival of our species. We intellectualize our existance and bring ourselves to such lofty extremes that we deem ourselves much better than the animals that we see. We are a human animal first and foremost, and the expressions of which, drive us in our needs and those things that would keep us alive and active.
would i fight if needed? sure, the ability to shred and maul is present within me.Shall i nurture my offspring? of course and when the time comes, will surely push the baby bird out of the nest, so that flight is possible. With all things there must be a balance.We must accept our nature and use our intelligence to avoid those things that would harm others.This is not gender specific, it applies to both the male and female of our species

[lemit]

The culture I grew up in required women to be tough as nails while pretending to be the weaker sex at all times. It required men to be as tough as nails while pretending to be even tougher than they were. It's as if the world were bathed in testosterone.

As a result, women did as much farm work as men did and then were expected to keep the house clean and meals hot. While the women were cooking meals and cleaning up after meals, the men mostly postured and talked about how strong they were. (My dad, who apparently really was stronger than any other man in the area, said long after we left the farm that he thought he might have thrown up if he had had to sit through another of those conversations.)

My take on women's ability to be tough and aggressive is warped by my upbringing. I think women can do more than men while pretending to do less, meaning they can run circles around men while claiming all the activity is because they're having trouble keeping up.

Culture and necessity make all of us do strange things. My guess is that our natural capabilities are roughly equivalent. But that's just a guess.

--lemit

[Michaelangelica]

[quote]

Originally Posted by lemit

The culture I grew up in required women to be tough as nails while pretending to be the weaker sex at all times. It required men to be as tough as nails while pretending to be even tougher than they were. It's as if the world were bathed in testosterone.

LOL
Has anything changed?
This reminds me of a family story. My wife's grand mother was apioneer in the Monaro area of NSW. Her husband at that time (wars killed a few) was a Bullock Team Driver bringing supplies into the area. (The bullocks were named after the 12 apostles. It is said his favorite was Judas ) He was often away for long stretches of time. She, heavily pregnant, ran the farm. One day a new 'poddy' calf got away. (I don't know if Yanks have that term it is a young cow whose mother has died or abandoned him and is brought-up/ hand reared by the farmer). This of course was a major blow to the family fortunes so young-girl-grandmar whent looking for him in the bush. About 5-10 miles from home she went into labor. She had the baby, cutting the umbilical cord with a sharp rock. She then continued on, found the lost calf, and went home. She cleaned herself and the baby, and put the child in her new 'cot' (baby-basket here). Late that night her husband came home as she was cooking his tea. "I have a surprise for you dear" said young-girl-granny, "Look in the cot"
He did; and fainted.

I was interested to hear during the week that the fragrance of a pregnant woman can reduce a male's testosterone levels.
I must track the source of that down.

I wonder if peace does " break out" (see thread I started on this)--what will happen to all that male testosterone?
Gee another dove in the White house- maybe an effective one this time.
and
Yank business beginning to realise that war is not really that good for profits-peace is better. Perhaps we will have more aggressive Yank Corporate acquisitions and takeovers?
But aren't the girls better at Corporate management too?