What makes Creationism so hard to believe in, and evolution so easy?

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by Buffy

On the contrary, Creationism is *much* easier to believe. That's because all that's asked of you is to just believe it. You do not have to question it. The only source is the Bible and what your preacher says. What's hard about that?

That's what makes it hard for me to believe. I have questioned everything as far back as I can remember. I really don't understand how so many can believe in creationism with no credible proof that I know of other than faith.

[bumab]

Originally Posted by Buffy

What's most difficult of all..... is to believe in God AND subscribe to Evolution.

Not really that difficult at all, actually.

[bumab]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

....this would be like saying that evolution is impossible because science has shown that fins cannot evolve into legs by fish climbing onto land. Some folks stilll think that happened. But no one (informed) has thought that in over a hundred years. It can no longer be used as an argument against evolution.

Excellent post, Bio.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Biochemist

I have to admit I get a little weary of this straw-man argument model. I have been a Christian for a long time, I have had hundreds of evangelical friends over the years, and I don't think I have ever met a Creationist as you decribe....Among folks that are academically trained, those folks that are theists do not assume that the earth is 4000 year old, or that the flood put fossils into place, or any of the other false-association arguments.

I described some extremes, but I have met many Creationists who consider any opinion other than literal interpretation of Genesis to be apostate and reason not to be Raptured. They are not the majority of "theists" by any means, but they are by far the most vocal, and most damaging in trying to find useful agreement on what should be done in terms of trying to teach Creationism as a part of the science curriculum.

Originally Posted by Biochemist

Theists believe that God made man special and gave him some capability for free will. After that, there is quite a range of opinion, just like among evolutionists.

Actually among theists, including members of mainstream sects, there is NOT agreement on these points! That was the main thrust of my arguments here and the other active thread on this topic: you can believe in God and believe in Evolution and believe that we *don't* have a "special place" in the universe (by the way, that's a key part of the Aliens Poll I put up a few days ago, and no one has yet voted for a "special position" in the universe for humans). What *I* get tired of is people who hurl epithets like "godless humanist" at anyone who says they believe in Evolution or that the law of the land shouldn't be the Ten Commandments. You can believe these things and still believe in God, although its amusing how many religions would excommunicate you and worse for it.

Originally Posted by Biochemist

To suggest that Creationism is the only alternative to the widely accepted set of evolution-related theories is untrue....

I'd agree. The question was specific to Creationism, and there are discussions in other threads about ID. The thing I love about ID is that in spite of the fact that the strict interpretation folks are pushing it heavily, it in fact it almost completely undermines Creationism because it does not use the Bible and cannot address the 6400-year old earth and other things that Creationists insist on. But that's a discussion for the other threads.

I think we're actually agreeing here, although from different ends of the spectrum!

Cheers,
Buffy

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by bumab

Not really that difficult at all, actually.

You quoted me out of context. To clarify, the thing that makes it difficult is that you will be attacked unmercifully for it by the extremists. I know lots of people who do believe in both God and subscribe to Evolution, and they go to Church, Temple, Mosque regularly, and yet they are told they can't be religious if "they believe in that stuff." If you're looking for reasons that there's a "breakdown in society" I trace it directly to that "us versus them" polarization that is making human discourse, interaction and compromise impossible. Feh!

Cheers,
Buffy

[bumab]

Ah. I apologize, I misunderstood.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, as I've experienced the effects of that polarization myself. While it's unfortunate and probably somewhat inevitable, one must always remember that most (although not all) of those folks are doing it out of real (although misplaced) concern- for your salvation, presumably. Makes it much easier to bear, when you think about it like that.

[pgrmdave]

Originally Posted by bumab

one must always remember that most (although not all) of those folks are doing it out of real (although misplaced) concern- for your salvation, presumably. Makes it much easier to bear, when you think about it like that.

Like the crusades, kill the man to save his soul.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by Buffy

...Actually among theists, including members of mainstream sects, there is NOT agreement on these points!

Sure. But I think it is disingenuous to pick on the weakest argument as if it represents the field. Even allowing for a discussion that contends "Evolution vs Creationism" is a valid comparative paradigm is bothersome. It would be like discussing "European history vs Marxism". One is a field, and one is a specific worldview.

...{I get trired of} people who hurl epithets like "godless humanist" at anyone who says they believe in Evolution or that the law of the land shouldn't be the Ten Commandments.

Sure. But I have not seen those posts here. I don't think the fact that others routinely misrepresent positions gives us license to do so.

The question was specific to Creationism, and there are discussions in other threads about ID. The thing I love about ID is that in spite of the fact that the strict interpretation folks are pushing it heavily, it in fact it almost completely undermines Creationism ...

Of course it does. Most academically trained evangelicals have never given Creationism (in the classic sense- 4000 year old earth, flood geology,. etc) ANY creedence. Why in the world would anyone be surprised that academic Christians would offer a position that refutes a theory they never supported??????

[bumab]

Originally Posted by pgrmdave

Like the crusades, kill the man to save his soul.

I assume you were being a little facetious, that's not a common view now a days!

I simply meant that many people do believe that evolution as a belief is mutually exclusive to salvation, and therefore, they are (rightfully) concerned, and thus tell you that you are wrong and need to change. I would do the same thing to somebody that thought they could drink nothing but anti-freeze and lose weight. So, it's a healthy concern to many, and I, for one, am not offended by it at all.

It would be much more concerning if they just said "screw you, believe what you want" and left it at that.

[eMTee]

Forget the Bible or any religouse book or beliefs ...I just want to know your reason you choose to believe evolution rather than inteligent design, or vise versa.