What makes Creationism so hard to believe in, and evolution so easy?

[Chacmool]

Originally Posted by Zohaar818

What we have in the Bible isn't the record of God designing humans it is the record of advanced intelligences interfering with human development..and to me that is a BIG difference.

Interesting opinion, Zohaar. When and how do you believe advanced intelligences interfered with human development? Does this mean that you don't think evolution on Earth happened spontaneously? Do you have references to sites where I can do some background reading on this point of view?

[Zohaar818]

Originally Posted by Chacmool

Interesting opinion, Zohaar. When and how do you believe advanced intelligences interfered with human development? Does this mean that you don't think evolution on Earth happened spontaneously? Do you have references to sites where I can do some background reading on this point of view?

Read literally..the first sentence of the Bible describes the process of terra forming. The same process that we are considering for planet Mars. First you must create an atmosphere and in that process make the land habitable..we speculate that introducing certain fungal spores on the planet and letting them thrive for a decade or two would in turn introduce oxygen into the atmosphere...it would also enrich the soil making it suitable for more complicated plant species and possible insects. I know it all sounds hypothetical..but if you take the long view..as interstellar travellers would have to..entirely plausible. You could remake mars in earth's image in only 6 simple steps, provided you had the idea, the technology [we we just about do] and the patience.

To seed a planet or transplant some species from one growth habitat to another doesn't mean you discount the process of evolution. Species evolve..of that I have no doubt.
But the record we have on earth shows no consistent pattern of chronology..by that I mean..we have incidences of exteme variation occurring all at once and we have millions of years between where nothing much happened. So how to explain it....

But the essence of my argument is that in the holy books..each and every one of them..it is stated clearly that God and his angels descended, and in one way or another managed to interfere with us...be it through genetic engineering, or simply turning one tribe against another and set to conquest, rape, pillage.seek gold and make blood sacrifices...
WE delight in our arrogant assumption that the tales told by our ancestors must be superstitions or fantasy, even though we think the book of books was written by God...and even though they have left us architectural monuments the likes of which we cannot duplicate and attribute the knowledge to build such things as having come from somewhere else [off planet]..I mean ask any free -mason !!!

So, bottom line YES, I really do think we have been interfered with and continue to be interefered with by off planet intelligences..and so do most of your generals.

Zohaar

[Biochemist]

All-

This is one of two threads in this forum that has wandered quite widely. SInce we are at over 400 posts, I suggest that we start new threads on the new topics that have surfaced.

Thanks.

[DAK]

<you'll see that you are preaching to the converted.>

Yes, I'm just starting fresh and putting forth my own take is all... not preaching.

<But to ascribe mystic, holy, omnipotent intelligence to such a field is ..well let me put it this way...it is like fish thinking of the ocean as God since it pervades their entire 'universe'...and they can't imagine life without it..and so therefore starfish and tuna all must have been designed by the 'Ocean'....>

Like reality probably actually is, the above requires pure 'subjectivity' to even speak about. First of all, in a way all the sea creatures ARE "designed by the ocean". As to the rest... well, that's very subjective as well... if we are all "of" the field {god}, then on would need not stretch to: ""mystic, holy, intelligence"". Personally I think 'holy' came about to mean 'beyond the understanding of the mind'... which so far has proven true of "the field". Further, my understanding of the working of the mind [essentially verbal thinking... linear domain] points to a continuation of that state.

"If God is an intelligence it is a collective intelligence..an Awareness...who doesn't take humans personally and didn't design earth. 'God' ..is. Period."

Agreed... although, the design part is subjective or course.... the earth would be "of it's design" one would assume. And therefore subjectively, one could say that 'creationsim' is true vs a random mutation model.

Again, I see no need to go to the bible to argue these things... the non-linear domain can't be described easily using linear {written language} easily... especially when the authors didn't even know that!! So, while I'm sure there is a LOT of truth in the bible {new testiment minus revelations... Jesus teachings}, it's interpretation is going to vary radically depending on the conciousness level of the reader. For instance, what does "love" mean to mother Teresa vs a hardened criminal missing a chromosome or two?

DAK

[DAK]

<But the essence of my argument is that in the holy books..each and every one of them..it is stated clearly that God and his angels descended, and in one way or another managed to interfere with us...be it through genetic engineering, or simply turning one tribe against another and set to conquest, rape, pillage.seek gold and make blood sacrifices...>

What is a 'holy' book?? What was included into the Catholic bible for instance was fought over, changed, argued about for centuries... as is their translation. So it is of human translation. There are parts however that are probably almost direct quotes of Jesus Christ, which, assuming he was an avatar would be quite valuable. I would argue that your point is entirely subjective, and that it is easy to see that the actual teachings of Christ, the Buddha, and various Taoist masters {in fact all sages through history} are actually the same, and that NOWHERE is it taught that god is doing anything but being. How can god interfere with..... itself?

"even though we think the book of books was written by God..."

Much has been written by very high level masters {Maharshi, etc} BUT no one thinks that god wrote the bible that I am aware of. Is there one word anyone claims Jesus to have written?

DAK

[Biochemist]

Gang-

I am going to close this thread becasue it is too long an varied. We are on (at least) two separate unrelated topics.

DAK, Zohar- You guys are having some interesting discussions, but they are only tangential at best to the thread topic. I suggest you start new threads.

Thanks.