[perfusionista]

Yes,
I believe myself that there is a Creator. You may not believe this, but at minumum, one must believe from the empirical evidence that the Universe has intelligent design, and all life on earth was intelligently designed as a self regulating servo mechanism biosphere. Five hundred years ago, they all thought the world was flat too. This is how the "clergy" of evolution treat the "heretics", who dare oppose it. You see, anyone who cares to know the truth, will learn that the theory is not true. Evolutionists will point to changing the color of a hair on a fruit fly's ass, and, say "See, genetic changes!". Why is it in 25 years of trying, we cannot make anything? We cannot make cell lining, mitochondria etc. Not the simplest living change can be made in a laboratory from inantimate objects. We must start with living organism. Sure, we can genetically tamper to change minor things, such as production of one chemical, but why cant we change an ameoba into a different one celled organism, in controlled environment? From working in medicine, I know that all genetic mutation in life is not good. Mutations kill and maim. That is why we call them mutations. X-men is a comic book! Wake up. That is the whole shaky premise Darwin's theory is built on. Look at genetic mutations in human, find one good one. We are built from plans, and when the machines that assemble us make a mistake, we are defective. The incidence of mutations also shows that they fall within a standard distribution, so that the small percentage of the population has them and dies, and the population reverts to the mean. This is why there are NO fossils to support evolution. Yes, that's what I said, not ONE. Supposedly thousands and thousands of varous life forms, competing for natural selection, with gradual changes over time right? Well how come the fossil evidence is exactly opposite? Species appear suddenly, and dissapear suddenly. Species are easily differentiated, and there are no half-and-half species. After 100 year, all they have is one fossil of bird with an lizard ass-bone. ha ha Look at the news, they say earlier and earlier how man was intelligent. Look at the caves in France, where they drew beautiful pictures, and signed them with a palm-print. They worship the bird lizard. But open ones eyes and see the truth staring you in the face: Intelligent design to the universe. Newton realized it. Einstein said that for sure the Universe had a starting point, but who pushed the start button? I am paraphrasing Einstien of course.

Once again, evolutionists point to ridiculously simple fruit fly hair. But explain the evolution of a complex molecule like Hemoglobin, which changes shape and strength of bonds with temperature and pressure. How fish hemoglobin changed to mammalian hemoglobin, and they cannot. Which was the first fish who took a breath? Did he go back into the water to get his girlfriend? Why are we like the apes? Well, maybe we share the same designer. Fluid dynamics is the same whether for a manta ray or bird, doesnt mean the manta ray and bird are cousins! means the guy who designed them both knew fluid dynamics. Look at our cells, tiny machines. All our technology, 21st century, and we cannot make life, cannot make a simple slug. Not even a slug, one cell, not even cell, one part of a cell. To have all this happen by CHANCE which we cannot do in controlled environment is like waiting at seashore for swiss watch to assemble itself and washup onshore.

You see, tiny steps to cross a chasm makes sense, but leaping the grand canyon is not. Makin a fruit fly ass-hair change color in controlled environment is ridiculous to extrapolate that to eyes and lungs and organs. Explain the clotting of blood? Blood is thin enough so that it can flow in your arteries, yet can clot to stop your bleeding without sending a clot to your heart or brain to kill you. To this day we cannot stop bleeding in surgery, this delicate designe balance. How does something evolve, when unless it is perfect to begin with, one dies?

The sad fac

[Roberto]

http://www.talkorigins.com

[Roberto]

Oops... Sorry, wrong page...

Correct one:

http://www.talkorigins.org

[Tormod]

perfusionista,

Great. Another creationist who "used to believe the same as *us*" and makes the *exact* same statements as the others who have popped in now and then.

I believe in evolution, but can't remember the last time I talked about "fruit flies" and "lizard birds".

What a waste of time and energy. But if you think it is cool to hang out and make yourself look silly, fine.

Tormod

[Lord Henry Wotton]

What's wrong with silliness?
I believe in a creator, creation however, that is difficult to accept (very).

[Tormod]

Oh, nothing wrong with silliness, and nothing wrong with having a faith. But trying to shovel it down people's throats by ridiculing a very well documented branch of science (like by calling it "junk science and secular religion") is for some reason accepted by certain evolutionists - while if I would start to discuss certain aspects of the two [differing] stories of creation, some people would cry blasphemy. But then again, most of the world's population do believe in alternative creations (like hinduists, buddhists, shintoists, muslims, and numerous others), so the Christian explanation is only one (or rather, two) of many. But no more likely, though.

Tormod

[Tormod]

I particularly like this quote:

perfusionista: "From working in medicine, I know that all genetic mutation in life is not good. Mutations kill and maim. That is why we call them mutations. X-men is a comic book! Wake up. That is the whole shaky premise Darwin's theory is built on."

I wonder 1) what work did you do in medicine, and 2) have you ever read Darwin?

Also, since you acknowledge that "not all genetic mutation is good", then 3) does this mean that most (or at least some) is good? and 4) I wonder if you realize that the reason X-men is a comic is that it is an adventure tale?

Perfusionista: "I am rambling, but you get my drift."

Yeah, I get it. It must be a sad world for you, to see that our knowledge of genetics is expanding every day.

By the way, did you know that Darwin thought the world was too young to make evolution possible - until he read Charles Lyell's revolutionary book on geology while travelling on the "Beagle"? I wonder if creationists ever see the irony in the knowledge that the Earth has existed for some 4,6 billion years - whereas the Christian faith is less than 2,000 years. But now *I'm* rambling.

Tormod

[Tormod]

"Five hundred years ago, they all thought the world was flat too. "

No, they did not. Even the Greeks knew the Earth was round (they even measured its circumference quite accurately). That people though the world is flat is, well, a myth. Anyone who has stood on the beach of any ocean and not come to the conclusion that the world is round must be either blind or, well, something else.

Tormod

[syndicated]

Tormod, I must say that Im suprised that you're letting this guy's opinion get to you like this. I realize ignorance is no excuse for attempting to force one's beliefs on others, but I think you proved your point.

At any rate, I wholeheartedly agree with the evolution theory, or theorem as it may be. The fact that there may be no fossils, or a "missing link" proves nothing, nor does it vaguely support the creationist theory. Perhaps these things have just not been given enough time to be found yet?
Perfusionista, you talk about how in 25 years, man has not been able to create anything in the way that life was orginally created. Don't you think that 25 years is a VERY short period of time to be jumping to such conclusions? 21st century technologies might be incredible, but they are FAR from perfect. In addition to that, I think that one must consider the moral/ethical consequences before "playing God" and just jumping into something and creating life or modifying life as we know it. Think of the effects that may happen should some scientist start fooling around with genes, DNA and chemicals and create something which may turn into Godzilla or some damn thing. Thats just not responsible reasearch. One must be careful in dealing with such things!!
As for this whole mutation discussion, I believe that you're really confining your defintition of "mutation" into meaning a purely bad thing. If you look at the evolution of man in the past say 50,000 years, our skull shape has changed considerably, we grow much less hair than our ancestors, and our intelectual capacity has grown exponentially. I believe the definition of mutation is more like "change" or a "differentiation" from the standard, and the fact of the matter is, evolution is a VERY, VERY slow action - or mutation if you will. Human beings, like all life on this planet, adapt to it's surroundings to take advantage of whatever it can to propagate the species.
Lets look at the Dinosaurs for example. When that asteroid hit the earth, our planet was predominatly inhabited by reptiles, cold blooded reptiles. It is said that this asteroid created a nuclear winter so to speak. Cold-blooded beings do not do well in subzero temperatures right? Whereas mammals can survive easily given the right circumstances and resources. One can only assume that the smalller reptiles were able to migrate to warmer places where they evolved to adapt to their new surroundings. The dinosaurs died, thus ending that era of life of Earth.

Like Tormod said, the Earth has been around for 4.6 billion years. That is a LONG time for life to evolve, adapt, die or survive. Don't get me wrong here, I like to believe in a higher power, but as of right now, there may be evidence to substantiate the creationist theory, however there is NO PROOF. Evidence and proof are two VERY different things. As of right now, there is far too much evidence in favour of evolution to take a creationist theory serious.
I hate to bash someone else's opinion, especially if I can't prove them wrong. However, I really don't like the way you presented yours Perusionista. However, I am - as always - open to any arguement you may have against mine.


Thanks,
Ben

[Tormod]

Syndicated - I simply had nothing better to do last night. I usually don't take part in the creationist debates. Since perfusionista has only made this one post wonder if we will hear from him again.

Also, the original post is not very original - it is strikingly similar to standard creationist postings I have seen in other forums, so it is probably only one of their many campaigns.

Tormod