virus!!!!

[Tim_Lou]

are virus living?

whats your opinion?

i believe that they are living...they have structure, and a reproduction method, variation in "species", mutation as adaptation.....

[Evanescence]

hey,

ok i have thought about this myself but there is one simple problem -

all living things have 7 characteristics:

MOVEMENT, RESPIRATION (release energy from food), SENSITIVITY (respond to changes), GROWTH (increase in size), REPRODUCTION (producing off-spring), EXCRETION (getting rid of waste products) and NUTRITION (eating)

as far as i know, virusues one have one of these: REPRODUCTION. they duplicate themselves, but they do not move freely, respond to changes, increase in size, get rid of waste or eat.

although, maybe the 7 characteristics of living things are totally wrong? i'll leave this one open.

[Tim_Lou]

well, but virus is way too complex from normal matter, right?
and nobody has ever succeed to create a virus! (have they?) just like people cannot create organisms.

scientists can produce non-living matters but not virus and organisms.

and also, virus can mutate just like adaptation for organisms.

yeah, virus may not seem to be living, but is it OK to call them particles???

[Tim_Lou]

+, they react when they find a host cell, can a piece of metal do this?

[Tim_Lou]

movement doesnt count as a necessary characteristic of living organisms.

plants do not move.

: )

[Evanescence]

as ridiculous as it may sound - you could actually say that plants do move in some way. they *do* bend towards the sun to enable them to absorb more light for energy. at least i think you can safely say that this is movement of some sort, even though very little.

with regards to the virus, just because scientists cannot create them, but does that mean that they are living things? or perhaps virusues are just a unique exeption to the characteristics of living things? an investigation into this would be a good idea i think.

any ideas?

[Tim_Lou]

virus is somewhat between living and non-living.

it may be an early form of live.
well, since they are very successful in the nature, thus no evolutions are needed and they remain this form of "life".

people say that virus DO NOT have all the characteristics of an organism. but in the other way around, virus DO have characteristics of living things that many non-living things dont have.

[Evanescence]

thats a good point looking at it from that point of view. i suppose we can say that viruses are not *dead* as a matter of speaking then? but we can still not surely say they are *living* either...so i'm kind of in between things here!

[sundog]

I'm certainly no expert in any field, but here's my 2 cents.

What if computers reach the stage where they learn, develop their own free thought and have a sense of being. Even though it may not move, grow or reproduce independently, could we ever say its alive? Or will it be simulating life?
If we do call it life, then a what point?
Just how different is a computer virus and a real world virus? (apart from one is man made).

A virus maybe no more or less alive than a computer virus, which can respond to a command, carry out a predetermined function and replicate. By itself it's just a piece of stored information with only the potential to do these things.

Perhaps we may need to be flexible with the characteristics that define life.

It seems the the characteristics of life are not always evident. Take seeds, spores and pollen etc. They only have the potential, given the right environment/elements, to move, consume, grow and reproduce.

Are they actually alive while in a dormant state?

So is a virus alive? I think it is, at some level.

I'm open to the idea that life may exist elsewhere in the cosmos, but not necessarily as we know it. (but that's another topic)


Just a some thoughts.



sundog

[Tormod]

Interesting question. I frankly don't know if virus are alive or not. But they sure can cause trouble...

Here is a page with a Q&A about this exact question -
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...9/bio99171.htm

I think it is fair to say that all plants "move". It think motion is not necessarily always external, either (for example, internal energy flows). Look at moss and lichen - they sit very still on the ground (fixed to rocks, for example) but they are very much alive.

Tormod