[Tim_Lou]

lets begin a new topic about this!

do you think organic matters come together and form pre-cell....after long period of time it turns into organisms? (but they are not even organisms yet, how can they have characteristics of organisms?)

or life cannot be created? it just exist and all lifes come from outer space!!!!!!(wooo!!!! we are all aliens!!)

how about god??? god get some atoms and twist them into some sort of stuffs!???

or is it that life is just an accident in this infinite universe for no reason?

any comments?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
do you think organic matters come together and form pre-cell....after long period of time it turns into organisms? (but they are not even organisms yet, how can they have characteristics of organisms?)

The biggest problem I have in this discussion is not HOW, but WHAT. WHAt is "life".

What make one cell "life" and other 'dead"? If one says that WE are "alive", then all the cells that make us up would be part of that. Yet some cells, such as Hair, is "not alive".

Is an iron nail alive? No?

But if we taake some of the iron and consume it, our body will turn it into "life" as part of our "living" body.

Then when we dispose of it, it becomes "non-life" again?

It would seem that "life" does not define things on an atomic nor molecular level? Only on a larger level, such as "cellular"?

So where is the surprise that over an extensive period of time, atomic interactions can develop into structures that are comlex enough for us to call it "life"!

or life cannot be created? it just exist and all lifes come from outer space!!!!!!(wooo!!!! we are all aliens!!)

Well, ALL of our "inner space" (Earth) started as outerspace.

how about god???

Don't know, haven't heard from him for a long time! Seems while he could not BURN the bush down, some MAN TORE it down.

god get some atoms and twist them into some sort of stuffs!???

one would wonder why an all powerful god would be required to create a system so poorly designed? Could have used solids modelling instead.

or is it that life is just an accident in this infinite universe for no reason?

Are we going to include "reason" along with HOW and WHAT?

[Tim_Lou]

ok, i'll change my questions a little bit.

what causes life to exist?
how does matter begins to reproduce? to organizes, to come together, to grow? and whats the meaning of changing from dead matter into organisms? y does the nature have to do such thing?

is it just hydrogen bombarding each other forming carbon, as star dust form the earth, carbon just comes together w/ others and form organisms?

well, if so, there is a high possibility that other forms of life exist in the universe...

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
ok, i'll change my questions a little bit.

I like your changes. You are putting more thought into it.

what causes life to exist?

Why does there have to be a "what"?

Or is natural process sufficient?

how does matter begins to reproduce? to organizes, to come together, to grow? and whats the meaning of changing from dead matter into organisms? y does the nature have to do such thing?

It would seem that as the laws of physics stabalized immediately after the BB, in this time/space, a natural order began to take place. Our existence is just a natural occurance of that process. The process does not exist in order for us to have happened. We happened because that is what would come of that process.

I have seen the blind archer example given. What are the chances of knowing where an arrow would fall if you blindfolded an archer and he shot the arrow randomly up in the air?

It would be 100% if you were standing next to where the arrow already landed!

And that is OUR position.

We have ALREADY occured, therefore it is a 100% probablity that we would.

is it just hydrogen bombarding each other forming carbon, as star dust form the earth, carbon just comes together w/ others and form organisms?

yes, yes, yes, yes, ... and ice floating..

well, if so, there is a high possibility that other forms of life exist in the universe...

I had reccomended a book previously that explores this. "Probablity One". It explores the Drake Equation. You like math, you'd love this book.

Another book I loved on Probablity was "The Power of Logical Thinking: Easy Lessons in the Art of Reasoning...and Hard Facts About Its Absence in Our Lives", Marilyn Vos Savan. Which as the title states, covers lots of oether areas as well.

[lindagarrette]

The molecules or life must have originated in space. Here are two recent links on that subject.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/life-01d.html

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Rosetta/SEMFWOWA6QD_0.html


There is no such thing as an accident. Everything must have a cause. -- Pandora

[Freethinker]

I remember a TV show, probably Nova, that showed a deep sea robot exploration of sea vents. First time we ever had something that could survive the conditions. Camera's showed sulphur vents spewing superheated gasses pouring from under the ocean floor. The amazing things was it was teaming with LIFE. Organizisms that lived in conditions that here to fore we had thought were impossible. Totally changing our defintion of "living conditions", conditions that can support life.

Not only was it amazing to see that some basic form of life could live in such "extreme" conditions, but what they found next. Next they cam upon something that looked like tube worms. With some special construction, they came up with a way to suck one of the tubes into a cylinder and seal it. Due to the extreme pressure these organisms live in, they would never survive being brought to the surface without exploding from internal pressure.

When brought up for lab research and cut open, they found the vent bacteria inside. The tubes where an organic life that lived off of the waste products of the bacteria. A symbioltic relationship had developed in which the tubes provided a more effecient flow of the gasses for the bacteria to live in and this provided food for the other organic matter.

What an incredible example of Evolution. Showing that where a food source/ energy source exists, something will develop to utilize it.

[Tim_Lou]

thx to everyone's replies!

well, i would love to read some books....but.....gotta have some intensive study about SATI and my AP chemistry!

i'll try to find it in library...lol

lindagarrette, very interest links...reading it now...

[TeleMad]

It would seem that as the laws of physics stabalized immediately after the BB, in this time/space, a natural order began to take place. Our existence is just a natural occurance of that process.

Please explain the details.

[TeleMad]

From another thread...

FreeThinker: “But if you are going to post here, you better be prepared to defend any claims you make.”

So why hasn't FreeThinker defended his claim in this thread? Is he exempt from his own rules?

FreeThinker: It would seem that as the laws of physics stabalized immediately after the BB, in this time/space, a natural order began to take place. Our existence is just a natural occurance of that process.

TeleMad: Please explain the details.

[Tormod]

TeleMad - what do you expect? The entire history of cosmology?

The mainstream big bang theory assumes that the laws of physics formed immediately after the big bang. This may be disputed, but it is hardly an extraordinary claim.

That our existence follows as the results of the big bang would be natural, since everything in the universe as we know it was created in the big bang (again, according to the mainstream big bang theory).

Freethinker can talk for himself but I see no reason to wonder why a request like "Please explain the details" did not get an answer. Maybe you should try to be more specific - what details are you looking for?

Tormod