[hallenrm]

Sometimes I wonder is there a parallel between organizations and organisms.

Both are born, grow and ultimately die.

Both are complex aggregrates

Both have some sort of code.


But then there is an essential difference in our perception of the two. Organism are bound by space, organizations may not be. Can there be organisms not bound in space? I am reminded of a scifi by Isaac Asimov, It is titled Hallucination. It appeared in a compilation called Gold. In this story Asimov talks about organisms which are not really bound by space. The parts of the organism can come togather, to yield a form.

[orbsycli]

like Inorganic beings,

To exist is to barely fathom all the crazy shit that's going on. (maybe not in the future,
though.
they'll know
more and more)

[Loricybin]

well organisms are just made of lots of parts working towards a common goal on several different layers and in very many ways.

like an organisation, but, like extra tight or something?

[hallenrm]

Originally Posted by Loricybin

.......like an organisation, but, like extra tight or something?

But the question is, can there be organisms of that mould?

[Zythryn]

Life as we know it all relies on chemical/electical messages from one part of the organism to another. This type of communication, it seems to me, requires a continuous medium.

I would never say that something in impossible. However, such life would require a completely different structure as it could not communicate with itself chemically/electrically.

So the first question would be, can other forms of life based on internal communication other than chemical/electrical messages.
This would also throw a majoy monkey wrench into the search for extraterrestrial life, as currently we are looking for worlds that could host carbon based life. We do this because we know more about how carbon works to form life than any other substance (difficult to search when you don't know what enviornments to look for).

Mark

[hallenrm]

Originally Posted by Zythryn

Life as we know it all relies on chemical/electical messages from one part of the organism to another. This type of communication, it seems to me, requires a continuous medium.

I would never say that something in impossible. However, such life would require a completely different structure as it could not communicate with itself chemically/electrically.

So the first question would be, can other forms of life based on internal communication other than chemical/electrical messages.
This would also throw a majoy monkey wrench into the search for extraterrestrial life, as currently we are looking for worlds that could host carbon based life. We do this because we know more about how carbon works to form life than any other substance (difficult to search when you don't know what enviornments to look for).
Mark

Yes, I know what we call a living organism is limited by our perception of Life. But, what I am wondering about, is the definition of a 'living organism' subject to change, just as the definition of mass and energy changed in the last century. I hope you will agree there is nothing sacroscant of the present perception. May be, after we changed our perception in this regard we may indeed discover extraterrestrial life. Isn't our search limited by our present concept of Life???

[Zythryn]

Oh I completely agree. I do believe we may find 'life' that is not like our own. Heck, we may have already.

The issue is, how do we recognize it? Will it/they/he/she behave like life as we know it?

What I rambled about above is not scepticism, but curiosity at how we could possibly recognize it even if/when we see it?

What can we conclude about it. Is there a test we can make for 'consciousness' when the creature is not carbon based?

Many people believe Gaia, Earth itself has consciousness. While I don't, I also can't say that it is impossible, just not anything we can currently detect.

If you have any suggestions or thoughts about how to test for non-carbon based life that is a good start. This would allow the developement of a hypothesis which could be tested and refined.

Mark

[Eclogite]

I think we should be careful not to confuse analogy with equivalence.

[hallenrm]

Originally Posted by Zythryn

Oh I completely agree. I do believe we may find 'life' that is not like our own. Heck, we may have already.

The issue is, how do we recognize it? Will it/they/he/she behave like life as we know it?

What I rambled about above is not scepticism, but curiosity at how we could possibly recognize it even if/when we see it?

What can we conclude about it. Is there a test we can make for 'consciousness' when the creature is not carbon based?

Many people believe Gaia, Earth itself has consciousness. While I don't, I also can't say that it is impossible, just not anything we can currently detect.

If you have any suggestions or thoughts about how to test for non-carbon based life that is a good start. This would allow the developement of a hypothesis which could be tested and refined.

Mark

Well said Mark! I think, and that is my self chosen vocation at present, that the prerequisite to the application of the 'advanced' concept would be exploring, how is applicable to the organisms we already know.

Yesterday a sudden thought flashed in this regard, don't the biologists already recognize that groups of ants/bees often behave as if they were a single organism.

Another thought, well we know communication through electromagnetic waves, but what is the sensitivity of our equipment to sense them, aren't there serius limitations? We all know that all multiatomic molecules emit infrared and microwaves all the time -- because they have to vibrate and rotate all the time, but are we indeed equipped to sense ultraweak signals?

Wondering and Thinking,