Why are Australian snakes so toxic?

[Ganoderma]

many of the snakes do have different venom, yes.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Ganoderma

many of the snakes do have different venom, yes.

O, OK. Is that the reason a lymph bandage is not suggested first-aid or is the USA just behind Ozzie medical thinking?

[dagaz]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

However venomous they are, Australian snakes are in dire (like extiction ) trouble. This is due to the silly introduction of the South American Cane Toad into N. Australia (Queensland) as a biolgical control to help sugar farmers. The toads have now taken over most of Queensland, in plague proportions. They are now moving south into NSW and west into NT threatning World Heritage areas like Kakadu National Park.

As far as I am aware most of our endangered snakes (e.g. the Broad-headed Snake) have been more highly impacted by habitat removal and tend to affect smaller, slightly less poisonous snakes. The bigger, more venomous snakes are still going strong. A good case is that of the Eastern Brown Snake - the main predator of juvinile Eastern Browns is the Red-bellied Black Snake (a non-aggressive snake with a rather non-innocous poison). Red-bellies are in serious decline due to cane toad predation (though still not on any official listings) and as a result the Eastern Brown (2nd most toxic snake in Australia, 4th in the world and extremely aggressive, especially during summer months) is actually much more prevalent now than prior to the introduction of cane toads (Eastern Browns have also been favoured by land clearing, unlike Red-bellies, which is another factor in the equation).

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by dagaz

As far as I am aware most of our endangered snakes

Thank god!
an Australian who knows what they are talking about!

[TheBigDog]

I think that several of the species of snake in Australia have a common ancestry. So they have similar deadly effect, and are numerous. Fierce Snake, Taipan, King Brown, Common Brown, (all the "Brown" varieties) seem to my observation have a common ancestry, and they all are on the very poisonous list. The Red Bellied Black Snake, Tiger Snake, and another that escapes me have a different type of venom and may also be from a common sourse in the past. But I am not a herpatologist, I just pretend Come to think of it, I think I have a picture of myself with a bull snake we caught in the yard in Colorado...

Here is a bull snake we caught in the yard at our house in Colorado. The night before in the middle of the night Charlie (the dog) was going nuts barking at something in the tall weeds at the back corner of the yard where we dumped grass clippings. I went out with a flashlight and there was a terrible rattling and huffing/hissing coming from the grass. In the light of the flashlight I could make out the diamond pattern and it was striking viciously at the dog. I didn't want to deal with a snake in the dark, so I dragged Charlie inside. The next morning I looked all over but there was no sign of the snake. Then early in the afternoon there it was laying on the lumber pile next to the garage. It turned out to be a bull snake. A very aggressive bull snake. They mimic rattle snakes, very well it seems. I was confident that I had identified it correctly, but was was still very careful not to get bitten. The pictures that follow were me catching and releasing the snake on the far side of the pond behind our house.

Here it is on the driveway. I had sent one of the kids to get the camera to document the momentous event.


Behind our house was open space, with a creek and a pond. About half the neighborhood of kids had arrived by this time to come see the snake.


I released the snake at the far edge of the pond. Maybe 75 yards behind the back edge of the property.


It was back on the woodpile in under an hour. I released it two more times that day, taking it further each time. And it kept coming back. Finally it got to where I could not reach it under a big pile of branches I had pruned off of the trees. I flew off to work the next day. The day after that it bellied up to the back porch against the sliding glass door. The whole family sat and watched as Charlie dragged his cinder blocks accross the yard, creeping closer and closer to the snake. Until he had closed the gap and he killed it right there on the back porch. They tell me it was like watching a nature video. I was sad. I kinda liked the snake. I would not have let the dog kill it if I had been home.

Bill

[dagaz]

Before I became a science teacher I used to work in ecology/habitat restoration so have had quite a few snake experiences, however there is one that still blows me away (self-indulgent snake story follows, feel free to skip):

Myself and two colleagues were working at a rainforest remnant that had a serious infestation of the herbaceous weed Wandering Jew (Tradescantia albiflora). Wandering Jew forms a thick layer on the ground that prevents the seeds of many rainforest species from being able to germinate. So we were in there spraying it with round up. Halfway through the day one of my colleagues, who had just come back from filling up his spray pack, told us that there was a big brown snake right where we had our morning tea and where we would want to have our lunch. About an hour later I was the first one to finish my pack so went back out of the remnant for an early lunch. It was a stinking hot day (Australian summer) and apart from the remnant which we had been spraying all day the only shade was where the brown snake was meant to be. As I still had my spray boots on I wandered over and had a good look but couldn't see the snake. I went and got my lunch and came back and sat down. A few minutes later Darren, the same guy who had spotted the snake in the first place, came out of the bush and asked me if the brown snake was gone. I replied that it must have because I couldn't see it anywhere. He took another couple of steps then screamed at me "No its f***ing not! You're sitting right beside it you f***ing idiot!!!"

I looked down and sure enough there it was, I could have reached out and touched it I was sitting that close to it. At first I didn't do anything as I couldn't see its head, but then I saw that its head was actually tucked under one of the coils of its belly and it was looking straight at me. As soon as I saw that instinct took over and I bolted away - leaving my lunch, shirt and car keys sitting right beside the snake. The snake hardly moved during all this so (this is the bit that still blows me away today) I carefully made my way back to where I had been to grab my stuff, the snake barely moved but did flatten out the back of its head slightly as if it was thinking about it.

[Ganoderma]

it could be. i am honestly not too knowlegable about venom. however there are different types even in one specie sometimes.

frankly, in usa/canada there are no super deadly snakes (you need to go south more..). there are coral snakes (neurotoxic), which one has to be a little stupid to get bit by and there are vipers (theri venoms are too complicated for me to fully understand) which give you some time to seek medical help. its just not the same as australia where you can die in minutes...not that their venom is not toxic, cause it can kill...just differently and slower.

and of course there seems to be a lot more defense in NA venomous than in oz. most of our venomous are sit and strike and are not nearly as fast as old world elapids.

all my feild work has had to with non-venomous reptiles and western rattlesnakes, so i did not use a bandage. i am a little embarassed to say i dont even know what type of venom they are used for

[Kriminal99]

Someone told me that they had a relative in africa that got bit by a poisonus snake while working on a car, and then got the crap shocked out of them by a car battery or something and it somehow neutralized the poison. Is anything like that really possible?

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by Kriminal99

Someone told me that they had a relative in africa that got bit by a poisonus snake while working on a car, and then got the crap shocked out of them by a car battery or something and it somehow neutralized the poison. Is anything like that really possible?

No, but it makes a hell of a story!

Bill

[Mercedes Benzene]

No, but it makes a hell of a story!

Indeed... It seems like one of those comedic (and ironically lucky) clips that people so much enjoyed at the turn of the century (20th)...

...except there were no car batteries...