Darwin re-visited

[ughaibu]

Take a population, split it into half a dozen sub-populations and put each in a different ecological environment. The basic statement of Darwinian evolution is that the characteristics of these sub-populations will diverge. They will also have an impact on the other organisms in the ecosystems into which they are introduced.

[Kayra]

Yep. Very true.

But life forms will always act (or try to act) in what they see as their own best interests.

The interaction of the individual species inevitably and eventually creates an ecosystem simply because this is usually the best thing for the individual species.

Groups of life forms evolve together in an ecosystem (and hence the ecosystem evolves) only because each life form seeks its own best means of procreation.

The evolution of an ecosystem is a side effect of the evolution of a life form.

[ughaibu]

I would say the two are interdependent, with neither having a precedent role or being an effect of the other. If an individual member of an ecosystem is transplanted elsewhere, both the remaining system and the transplanted species will adapt to meet the new conditions.

[Kayra]

Oh dear.. I smell a chicken or the egg conundrum. :P

All I can think of is that life can exist without an ecology, but an ecology can not exists without life.

This really should give life the precedence

[Eclogite]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Here are his criticisms of two aspects of Darwin's theory.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06149/694046-85.stm

The above is an extensive quote from a Dr Schwartz. What I find surprsing is that there is nothing in the quotes that does not match my understanding of the current status of evolutionary theory. Nothing he says is new. Nothing he says is a challenge to the Modern Synthesis of Darwinism, that has been around for half a century. Except, perhapsm the remarks on gradualism, that were well tackled by Gould and his punctuated equilibrium, by the early 1970s.
I think you need to bring yourself up to date. No offense intended. Your objections are all seemingly valid, it is just that I think they have all been dealt with over the last sixty or seventy years.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Kayra

Perhaps this will help.

Evolution has 2 critical repeated steps at the very basis of the process.

Step one. Create diversity in a population
Step Two. Remove from that population that which is not fit.

or
Step one. Create diversity in a population
Step Two. Remove 99.99% of that diversity.

Of course, the theory (NS) can be made to fit almost any senario, but I find this a big ask.

[hallenrm]

Here's a random thought that occured just now! Darwin's classical work is designated "The origin of species", perhaps at that time the concept of ecoystem was not that well developed. Darwinism that our friends in this thread are discussing is better called "The evolution of ecosystems".

Any comments please!!

[ughaibu]

Michaelangelica: You seem to be considering evolution to be a driving force, it's not, it's a mechanism and it's difficult to see how an alternative mechanism could have allowed complex life to cope. In short, the evolutionary process is itself selected by the problem of continuity of complex life in unstable environments.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

Here's a random thought that occured just now! Darwin's classical work is designated "The origin of species", perhaps at that time the concept of ecoystem was not that well developed. Darwinism that our friends in this thread are discussing is better called "The evolution of ecosystems".

Any comments please!!

We have certainly learnt of our interdependence with all life on the planet.
Perhaps something that was not fully appreciated in Darwin's time.

My random and probably silly thought:
Where does the junk DNA come from?
Why does a fern or an almost- fish have more genetic material than us?
Is this the remnants of the evolution of life?

[Kayra]

Originally Posted by ughaibu

In short, the evolutionary process is itself selected by the problem of continuity of complex life in unstable environments.

That says a lot for a small sentence

Very nicely put