Evolution not the only thing to be taught anymore?

[lindagarrette]

I think it won't matter if the school boards force teaching of ID. Unless the teachers are stupid, they will easily show how absurd a notion it is. And, after high school, it is no longer an issue.

[Tim_Lou]

well... if creationism is taught, biology would be gone. no one in that school would be able to take bio thus would have a huge disadventage going into fields in college that deals with medical, chemical, biological stuffs.

""Insisting that teachers teach alternative theories of origin in biology classes takes time away from real learning, confuses some students and is a misuse of limited class time and public funds," "
yep, thats right...it would mess the whole biology class up.

imagine you took the bio class, and take the standardized test. one open ended question ask you about orgin of organisms... and you say "god creates everything". guess what? zero for that answer.

its just the way it is... change one, and one will have to change all.

[BlameTheEx]

This always rather confuses me. If there is a God, then reality is whatever he made it, and Science is the deeply religious act of appreciating His work. Why could not God create life through evolution?

As to whether life is too complex to be developed without a Creator, the jury is out. Life evolved, but we don't know how it started. The jump from chemicals to life puzzles us all. Can it happen by chance alone. How easy is it? We just don't know. When we don't know it is perfectly valid to say a thing is an act of God.

Well, we don't know yet. At any time the mechanism may be worked out, but that won't be an attack on God's existence, or power. If evolution is all that is necessary, still God set the basic laws of our universe so that it is possible.

This whole fight has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with dogma.

Personally I side with Linda. The teachers will show the notion as absurd. However this is like the evidence that smoking kills. The evidence has been around just about as long as tobacco, but if you don't want to believe it, there is always somebody willing to give you an alternative theory. It is a shame that this time the alternative theory will gain entrance to the school curriculum.

Finally a warning. Evolution is clearly substantially correct, but it might not be the whole story. Science can have dogmas too.

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: lindagarrette
I think it won't matter if the school boards force teaching of ID. Unless the teachers are stupid, they will easily show how absurd a notion it is. And, after high school, it is no longer an issue.

Now this is interesting. What if the teachers would in fact teach ID and creationism (of more kinds than just the Genesis) alongside proper science? Maybe they could start out with the scientific method, explain what science is and how it differs from religion and pseudoscience. Then they could teach them about creationism and actual science, and perhaps that will be a way to show the students just how ridiculous it is to include religion in science.

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
well... if creationism is taught, biology would be gone. no one in that school would be able to take bio thus would have a huge disadventage going into fields in college that deals with medical, chemical, biological stuffs.

That's something that is confusing as far as the behaviour of creationists. They think that creationism is supported by evidence, that it's a theory just like evolution or big bang. They seem to be completely blind to the fact that they are completely wrong, and that the theory of evolution is one of our most successful ones. When students that are brainwashed with religion comes to a college and gets in touch with real science (assuming that they are going to a real university), they will have a disadvantage. If this happens to a lot of people, then America will fall behind. These people are willing to destroy the education for entire generations.

[Tormod]

Originally posted by: lindagarrette
I think it won't matter if the school boards force teaching of ID. Unless the teachers are stupid, they will easily show how absurd a notion it is. And, after high school, it is no longer an issue.

I am afraid I have no such faith in teachers. Plus if teaching creationism and ID in schools are okay, then I guess they should bring back prayer and worship, too.

I thought the US had a separation between the state and the church. Why can't Americans teach their religion at home, and science in school?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: lindagarrette
I think it won't matter if the school boards force teaching of ID. Unless the teachers are stupid, they will easily show how absurd a notion it is. And, after high school, it is no longer an issue.

This would have some standing if it were not for the fact that some percent of biology teachers "are stupid" and do accept creationism and thus are anxious to teach it instead of Evolution. And others do not wish to get involved in the "dispute" and refrain from teaching Evolution regardless of what the School Boards decide.

From Skeptical Inquirer, Nov-Dec, 2001 by Randy Moore

* In Oklahoma, 33 percent of high school biology teachers place little or no emphasis on evolution. In Kentucky, Indiana, and Tennessee, 23 percent of high school biology teachers have the same view (Weld and McNew 1999).

* In Louisiana, 24 percent of high school teachers believe that creationism is scientifically valid, and another 17 percent are not sure. Even more (29 percent) believe that creationism should be included in high school biology classes. More than one-third of the high school biology teachers in Louisiana's public schools allocate time to creationism (Moore 1999c).

* In Minnesota, 40 percent of biology teachers spend little or no time teaching evolution (Hessler 2000).

* In Pennsylvania, one-third of high school biology teachers do not believe that evolution is central to biology (Weld and McNew 1999).

* In Indiana, 33 percent of high school biology teachers reject or are undecided about whether evolution is a scientifically valid explanation of the state of living organisms of the past and present (Rutledge and Mitchell 2002).

In my kids' Middle School the Biology teacher tells me he does not ahve time to teach Evolution, just "Change over time". Want to guess what his personal POV is?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: BlameTheEx
This always rather confuses me. If there is a God, then reality is whatever he made it, and Science is the deeply religious act of appreciating His work.

And as such "Science" would stop being Scientific. If the accepted concept is that "god happens", that things happen, not because of some natural flow of causation, some definable, predictable, testable, unwavering set of laws and processes, but because some old guy in the sky snaps his fingers. Then science woould be like "Art Appeciation". "Oh isn't interaction between that chemical and the body cute this time?" instead of Medical Science finding a cure for a disease.

Why could not God create life through evolution?

Because it would then NOT BE Evolution. It would be interference from an outside agent.

As to whether life is too complex to be developed without a Creator, the jury is out.

Not if you talk to ANY credible peer reviewed scientist that works in a directly related field of research.

The only ones that reject a natural Abiogenesis are those locked into antiquated religious superstition.

When we don't know it is perfectly valid to say a thing is an act of God.

A comment which shows complete ignorance of true Science.

Anyone with even a shred of basic understanding of Scientific Method would laugh at such a stupid claim. It is NEVER Scientifically acceptable to state "We don't know so we will blindly accept... "

Well, we don't know yet. At any time the mechanism may be worked out, but that won't be an attack on God's existence, or power.

And an unwillingness to accept the specific rejection of religious dogma when it is shown to be wrong by Science has been a corner stone of the intentional enforcement of ignorance over knowledge by religious authority. It is seen at every advancement of Knowledge over religious ignorance. People were killed by religious authorities for claiming the earth is not flat, circles the sun, ... by this same mindset. Hypatia, Giordano Bruno, ...

The US is falling behind the rest of the world in Science and it is directly related to Fundies trying to stop true Science from being taught in our schools.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Stargazer
That's something that is confusing as far as the behaviour of creationists. They think that creationism is supported by evidence, that it's a theory just like evolution or big bang. They seem to be completely blind to the fact that they are completely wrong, and that the theory of evolution is one of our most successful ones.

Religious authorities understand that people do tend to use some level of reasoning to make decisions. Thus they attempt to package their antiquated superstisions in psuedo-science to make it more acceptable to "modern" society. They will twist and distort Science and it's knowledge base in an effort to provide straws for the desperately addicted believers to grab at. And the religious, scientifically ignorant masses will accept these distortions, just as we have seen on this thread.

And when these distortions and lies are exposed, the ultimate fall back is obfuscation and appeals to faith. As we see perfectly in:

Originally posted by: BlameTheEx
Science is the deeply religious act of appreciating His work. Why could not God create life through evolution?
...
When we don't know it is perfectly valid to say a thing is an act of God.
...
At any time the mechanism may be worked out, but that won't be an attack on God's existence, or power.
...
Science can have dogmas too.

Complete distortions of what true Science is and how it works.

When students that are brainwashed with religion comes to a college and gets in touch with real science (assuming that they are going to a real university), they will have a disadvantage. If this happens to a lot of people, then America will fall behind.

WILL fall behind? Sorry, we have ALREADY fallen behind and are slipping fast.

These people are willing to destroy the education for entire generations.

One of Hitler's first efforts was to defund Public Schools and promote Christian schools. He stated that his (Christian) efforts were best acheived by a believing public.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tormod
I thought the US had a separation between the state and the church. Why can't Americans teach their religion at home, and science in school?

Christians have no intention of allowing the Constitutional protection to stand. And they have cheated the US in another election to keep their standard bearer in place.

It is a Wedge Strategy and is published in books exactly that way. To destroy the wall brick by brick, Truth by truth. Fact by Fact.

As during the Dark Ages (the last time Christianity ruled the world) they are in a desperate struggle to destroy any factual information that does not conform to their antiquated superstitions and hateful dogma. They are well organized, well funded and will stop at nothing. Lying, cheating, stealing, killing are well established tools of thier trade. And they do not hesitate to use any and all of them.