Turn coal into oil

[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by UncleAl

Even Brazil with free land from chopping jungle, essentially free labor, and Third World minimal agriculture fuel-ethanoled itself into national bankruptcy.

I haven't yet been through those links for lack of time but, as I understood it, Brazil was using agricultural waste and not material grown to the sole purpouse of ethanol production. Regardless of what Brazil or other countries have done, it would certainly be smart to use husks, leaves, stems, roots and whatever would otherwise be thrown away. Can you give a brief and essential outline of how national bankruptcy could ensue from such a thing?

Another good idea is organic waste that farmers traditionally use for natural fertilizer, commonly called manure. It is usually left to mature by decomposition. This produces a lot of methane which is better for the environment than other hydrocarbons, as well as alcohol. More hydrogen and less carbon. The methane is usually just dispersed into thin air.

Like many people, you mention money. We're not talking just about money we're talking about our future. Everybody's future.

[TeleMad]

Originally Posted by Qfwfq

This produces a lot of methane which is better for the environment than other hydrocarbons, as well as alcohol. More hydrogen and less carbon. The methane is usually just dispersed into thin air.

Methane released into the atmosphere is far from innocuous.

While manure-derived methane is proving very useful, the methane cows burp is causing problems. Methane is a greenhouse gas and, in the atmosphere, contributes to global warming. Cows burp an abundant supply of it every day — about 280 liters per animal (in other words, the average cow could fill 140 two-liter soda bottles with gas daily). Unfortunately, burped methane is more difficult to collect, with the result that about six million metric tons of it float blissfully up into the atmosphere every year. And that's just from herds in the United States. (Worldwide, ruminant livestock — including cattle, sheep, goats, and buffalo — produces about 80 million metric tons of methane per year, accounting for 22% of anthropogenic methane emissions.)

Methane is second only to carbon dioxide in the list of greenhouse gases. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, it's 21 times better at trapping heat in the atmosphere than CO2 (a fact that can be attributed to the larger size of CH4 molecules). The six million tons of methane that North American cows burp annually are equivalent to 36 million tons of carbon dioxide.
(http://www.riverdeep.net/current/200...cowpower.jhtml)

[Qfwfq]

Now that's interesting!

I thought most of it came out the other end.

[Qfwfq]

Perhaps TeleMad you were referring to: "methane which is better for the environment"?

Obviously I meant as a fuel. Burning a mole of it produces 4 moles of water, only one mole of CO2. Next best thing to hydrogen as a fuel but less troublesome.

Over here methane and LPG have both been in use as alternative motor fuel for decades. It used to be done only by private people, just for the saving, with a switch between the gas and gasoline. More recently methane has become the issue because it pollutes less and some townships began to have fleet vehicles running on it with their sides painted to advertize: "I'm not polluting the air!". People appreciate it. Vehicles running on methane are incentivated, including exemption from the traffic limitations that unsue when pollution goes over certain limits.

I have heard that manufacturers are now selling cars with bi-power engines, being designed for it they don't run less well on methane.

I gave Uncle Al's links a quick look and I saw a few amusing things, including ethanol being referred to as a low-grade auto fuel. When I was young I knew a Canadian engineer, graduate from one of the most respected faculties in Canada, and I remember him telling me about the early days of automobiles. He said that, when the time came for manufacturers to put them in production and for widespread distribution of fuel, the choice came to be made between the two best candidates for fuel: gasoline or ethanol? They all agreed on this line: Oh, heck, you drill a hole down in Texas and petroleum comes gushing up for free! Refine it a smidgen and you're off! Short sighted, short sighted.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by matrixscarface

i have found out that they have been able to turn coal into oil... does anyone know how i could personally do this?

Here's a white paper that could get you started. It does not look like a cheap process. I hope you have money to burn.

[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by TeleMad

Methane released into the atmosphere (through cow burps) is far from innocuous.

It seems to me that if we could just get cows to burp into a tank, and then have the tank self-ignite once it reaches a critical volume, we could have an auto-barbecue.

We just have to figure some natural source for about 50-80 gallons of barbecue sauce.