DMT and the Psychedelic Pineal.

[orbsycli]

Originally Posted by DarkColoredLight

Too bad durring church communion they don't give you wine and manna. I think that could of kept me in church for many moons.

Although I'm not trying to deny the manna=magic mushroom theory, I think further evidence is needed to convince not only me, but the general masses that the theory holds water. So please elaborate.

I think so too, and if I had any on hand I'd allow it to hover for all eyes to sea.

[neuroflux]

Ive been studying the MANNA mushroom connnection for a while now, except im at a 1$ for ten minutes terminal and i want to get into it, im cherry picking right now and wont be back for a few days....So i look forward to discussing this in a few days.....

For the time being read some of James Author's research, although he is a Amanita lover, it is a worthwhile start to a MANNA disucssion,,,see ya when i reteurn..
\NF

[neuroflux]

I found this write up that describes the aurgument that MANNA was a tryptamine containing mushroom. A good way to get familar with it.( maybe not a 'chemistry" topic, but interesting indeed)


"Arguments that "manna" was a Psilocybe mushroom."

There are a great many people who would never consider the

use of visionary plants to be a spiritual experience. These

people believe that spiritual experiences must come

directly from God and that the use of visionary plants goes

against the teachings of the Bible. Contrary to this

notion, the Bible never explicitly prohibits the use of

visionary plants or potions. What you will find however, is

many curious references to a spiritual food sent down from

heaven by God, called manna.

The Bible never tells us exactly what manna was and where

it came from, but there are many Old Testament passages

which describe its physical qualities and conditions

associated with its appearance. The Bible's first reference

to manna is in the Book of Exodus as the children of Israel

are fleeing from Egypt and following Moses into the

wilderness. After six weeks of wandering, they began

complaining to Moses that they are tired and hungry. What

happens next is truly extraordinary:

Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will vain bread

from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather

a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether

they will walk in my law or no (16:4). And when the dew

that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the

wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the

hoar frost on the ground (16: 14). And when the children of

Israel saw it, they said one to another It is manna: for

they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This

is the bread which the Lord hath given you to eat.

When I read this passage, I was struck by the fact that

manna easily fits the description of psilocybe mushrooms.

For one thing magic mushrooms are small and round, and

since they sprout so rapidly they would seem to appear

overnight, as if out of the sky. Also, anyone harvesting

them would immediately notice that they turn blue where

torn and had no roots, giving more reason to believe that

the mushrooms were of celestial origin. Note

that manna does not just fall from heaven, but instead it

is described as coming with the frost and dew, during the

wet seasons. These are the precise weather conditions for

mushrooms to thrive. And finally, manna is described as a

bread.

Although translations have obscured the intent of this

passage, it seems to be description of how to find and

identify manna and distinguish it from other non-

psychoactive (or possibly lethal) mushrooms. Look for the

small round things which are like bread, come with the

rain, and seem to have heavenly (bluish) coloring.

Psilocybe mushrooms also sprout in tiny pin heads which

branch out in all directions and bear a resemblance to hear

frost.

It is also interesting to note that Moses tells the

children of Israel that manna comes directly from Heaven to

test them on whether or not they will walk in God's law.

Here is evidence that manna was endowed with unusual

spiritual powers, like those of magic mushrooms. However,

manna does not automatically confer spiritual power.

Instead, it serves as a test. Magic mushrooms would provide

visionary experiences that would certainly test all who

ingested them. Moses also said that the manna is literally

the "bread of the lord" which is remarkably similar to the

literal Aztec name for psilocybe mushrooms, "flesh of the

gods."

But how and why did the manna suddenly appear? Again

referring to the Bible, it is clear that the children of

Israel had journeyed to a land where there was dew in the

morning. As a large, nomadic tribe, the Israelites brought

a lot of cattle and sheep together in the area. That meant

a great deal of manure. The change of climate from the arid

lands of Egypt to the dewy climate of the wilderness

created ideal conditions for the propagation and spread of

psilocybe mushrooms in livestock dung.

In Exodus 12: 19-20, we find more references to manna.

And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning

(16:19). Notwithstanding they harkened not unto Moses. but

some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred

worms and stank: and Moses was wroth with them(16.20). And

they gathered it every morning, every man according to his

eating. and when the sun waxed hot it melted...(16:21).

Anyone familiar with wild mushrooms knows that they go bad

very quickly and shrivel up under the heat of the sun,

exactly like manna.

It seems curious that Moses recognized the manna instantly

when the children of Israel showed it to him. He knew that

the manna would spoil if it was not picked and eaten in the

morning. But how did Moses know about manna? Perhaps Moses

knew about manna because he had already encountered the

mushroom at the time he saw the burning bush. Referring to

art earlier period of his life, we find that Moses:

...kept a flock of Jethro, his father in-law the priest of

Midiam: and he led the flock to the back side of the

desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb

(3:1). And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a

flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked,

and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not

consumed (3:2).

Had Moses eaten the sacred mushroom while camped at the

mountain? Here again we can only speculate that manure from

his flock and a change in climate had created the proper

environment for the mushrooms to fruit. Perhaps Moses

ingested the mush- rooms purely by accident, or perhaps his

father in law, who we know was also a priest, had

introduced Moses to the mushroom. Archaeological evidence

of psychedelic mushroom use in Biblical times is well

documented by Terence McKenna, so it is reasonable to

conclude that Moses could have had some experience with

visionary mushrooms. (1)Later, in Numbers 11:6-9, manna is

again described in terms that are remarkably similar to

magic mushrooms:

But now our soul is dried away: there is nothing at all,

beside this manna, before our eyes. And the manna was as

coriander seed, and the color thereof as the color of

bdelliaum. And the people went about and gathered it, and

ground it in mills, or beat it in a mortar and baked it in

pans: and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the

taste of fresh oil. And when the dew fell upon the camp in

the night, the manna fell upon it.

Here we find manna described as before our eyes, having a

neutral taste like fresh oil, and once again, the Bible

mentions that manna appearing in the morning when the dew

fell. The Old Testament even tells us what manna looks

like, the manna was as coriander seed, and the color

thereof. When psilocybe mushrooms are dried, their range of

colors is virtually identical to dried coriander seed. In

both cases, with mushrooms and coriander seeds, we see

great similarities in the texture, color, tones, contrasts

and general visual appearance. The Children of Israel must

have given great thought about how to transmit the

appearance of manna so as to aid future generations who

might encounter it. However, mushrooms were a mystery to

the Hebrews and they were unable to predict where manna

could be found. Little did they realize that the manure

from their cattle was providing a means for the mushroom to

find its way into their mountain campsites.

Notice that the manna was ground in mills or beat it in a

mortar. That is odd because earlier we are told that manna

was quite delicate and, then the sun wax hot, it melted.

However, if manna was the psilocybe mush- room, then it was

probably dried and then ground in order to be used for

baking. In fact, dried magic mushrooms are quite hard.

Grinding or crushing the dried mushroom and then baking

with the powder would insure that the delicate psychoactive

molecules retained their highest potency.

In the next passage, the Bible describes manna as having

light tan color and texture like a wafer, certainly an

accurate description of the color and texture of a dried

psilocybe mushroom. We also learn that the taste of manna

is no longer that of fresh oil but rather that of honey.

According to McKenna's re- search', honey has long been

used in Mexico as a preserve medium for psilocybin

containing mushrooms. Perhaps the children of Israel had

begun to mix honey with the manna to preserve its potency.

We find that Moses announced that manna must be kept for

future generations:

And the house of Israel called the name there of manna: and

it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was

like wafers made with honey(l6: 31). And Moses said, This

is the thing which the LORD commandeth. Fill an omer of it

to be kept for your generations: that they may see the

bread where with I have fed you in the wilderness, when I

brought you forth from the land of Egypt (16: 32).

Again we are told to fill an omer with manna But how much

is a omer? Isaac Asimov, in his book on the Bible,

concludes that an omer is about four liters, while the King

James version of the Bible estimates an omer to be six

pints. Psilocybe mushrooms are 92% water and only 8%

remains when they are dried. Also, fresh mushroom take up a

lot of space, due to their shape. So four liters of fresh

magic mushrooms would yield less than a tenth of a liter,

or about 1/4 cup of dried, powdered manna This corresponds

closely with the amount of magic mushrooms required for a

moderately strong dose when used for baking This is

important because it clearly shows that not only does manna

have similar qualities to magic mushrooms, it also shows

that it was also used in the same quantity as mushrooms. So

manna matches psilocybe mushroom on both a qualitative and

quantitative analysis providing a compelling argument that

psilocybe mushrooms are in actuality "manna from Heaven."

Of course there are those who will remain eternally

skeptical, but keep in mind that the description of manna

given in the old testament bears an exact resemblance to

mushrooms. Even if psilocybe mushrooms are not manna the

similarities have indicated mushrooms as a possible

candidate, and they certainly fit the bill for a "spiritual

food'. Unfortunately, when the Children of Israel finally

reach the arid land of Canaan, the mysterious manna no

longer appeared.

And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of

the old corn of the land: neither had the children of

Israel manna any more.

The children of Israel must have been deeply disappointed

when they ran out of their sacred manna. We can see that

they went to great lengths to preserve their knowledge

about identifying and using manna The Old Testament

contains detailed information about the color, texture,

appearance, and relation- ship to dew, and the Old

Testament even explains how manna is to be ground and then

used in baking cakes. If the Israelites thought that manna

was a magical event caused by God would they have bothered

to note all the details about the identification of manna?

What about the manna that Moses said must be put away for

future generations? Turning to Hebrews 9:3&4 we find:

And after the second vail, the tabernacle which is called

the Holiest of all: Which had the golden censer and the Ark

of the Covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was

the golden pot that had manna...

Here we learn that manna was to be kept in the Holiest of

all, the Ark of the Covenant. Clearly, the manna was

something of great spiritual power since the Hebrews

treated it with such reverence and even went to such great

lengths to see that manna be given to future generations.

We must also consider the covenant that the Jewish people

held with God which was celebrated through the act of

circumcision. Why was this covenant with God associated

with the removal of foreskin from infant males. Why not a

tattoo, scar, article of clothing or jewelry? Perhaps the

answer is that the circumcised penis bears a remarkable

resemblance to psilocybe mushroom just be- fore the partial

veil has broken away from the mushroom caps and they are at

their greatest potency. If the Ark of the Covenant was

specifically built to store manna it is logical was also

tied to manna through the ritual act of circumcision, which

gave each Jewish male his own mushroom-like penis.

The discovery that manna was (and is) psilocybe mushrooms

is not simply an issue of theological or academic debate.

So great was the power conferred by manna, that this small

band of wandering slaves were able to defeat all enemies

who crossed their path even when confronted by armies that

were bigger and better equipped. Jews, Christians and

Moslems can all trace their roots to the children of Israel

who ate manna for forty years and saw themselves as God's

chosen people. Again, we are reminded of McKenna"s thesis

that those who ate psilocybe mushrooms had a survival

advantage due to better visual acuity, heightened senses,

better hunting skills, and for the children of Israel,

better warrior skills. Manna gave the Hebrews their own

covenant with God one that is even recognized today by

Christians who believe that the Jews have already earned a

special place as the Chosen People. Bible scholar Grant R.

Jeffrey explains:

"The covenant which God made with Abraham and the kingdom

promises to David, Solomon and all the prophets will be

finally realized in the Mellennial Kingdom... the Lord

promised a new covenant with Ishmael in which He would give

them a new heart, forgiveness of sin, and the infilling of

the Spirit to the renewed nation. This promised kingdom

will provide the fulfillment of all the hopes and dreams of

the Chosen People forever"'

What is the new covenant? It is the rediscovery of manna.

Across the gulf of thousands of years the Bible transmits

and accurate and detailed description of manna waiting for

the time when the message can be decoded and manna can

again fulfill its role as acelestial messenger. Manna was

the basis of the Jewish covenant with God. Indeed, it is

this covenant and the use of manna which has set the Jews

apart as the Chosen People. The Bible is not the message,

it only points the way. Manna is the holy sacrament that

provides the means for God to "prove them, whether they

will walk in my law, or no."

If manna is indeed the psilocybin mushroom, then this means

that the Koran, Bible, and Torah were all inspired by

psychedelically induced visions. The very foundations upon

which these religions rest were derived from the mushroom

experience. Moses and the children of Israel used the

mushrooms as true sacraments to communicate with a Higher

Power, also known as Allah, God and Yahweh. The discovery

that manna is real and is available to us today means that

like children of Israel we too can use manna to experience

the joy, wisdom and spiritual renewal of the Chosen

people.

taken from; http://www.mushroomsfmrc.com/final_seal.html

[orbsycli]

Damn, that was a good read. Thanks for the post, neuroflux.

[neuroflux]

ya, that is an awesome essay, it sums it up very nicely. back to the tryptamines again as a source of divine knowledge. It would be apporpiate to offer this reading:
sprott.physics.wisc.edu/Pickover/pc/dmt.html

to understand how the chemistry of the "flesh of the gods" it is important to look at the studies doen that would support this theory in the context of religous thought. As the above essay has shown, the description of MANNA in th Old testament bares resemblance and striking similarity to a mushroom. If indeed the mushroom of the pisilocbin variety was the link to a higher conciousness in the times of the Bible and presumably from archeological discoveries before and in othe places.It would give validity to a new understanding and approach to the tryptamine hyper realms, han the western biast approach that is now installed. Although recently the Johns hopkins University had positive results in the experimentation with psilocybin and human volenteers.
peace
neuroflux

[MindSpace67]

MindSpace tried some Ayahuasca in South America and was amazed at the healing properties of this substance. MindSpace was told that Harvard University has been doing a study in Brazil, on the healing properties of ayahuasca for several years now; this got MindSpace very interested, so he recenty acquired some Mirmosa. It would be great to hear any stories of
friends who have successfully extracted DMT from Mirmosa using this EXACT tek; :: DMT Drug :: EXTRACTION The description of that tek sounds much easier than this other more "popular" yet complicated method that most people seem to be using; DMT EXTRACTION METHODS - MIMOSA HOSTILIS 1

MindSpace has been doing alot of research and just wants to be sure that the "so-called easier" tek works before attempting to turn his costly Mirmosa into Spice. Any stories from friends you may of heard about doing the easier tek would be much appreciated!

MindSpace67

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by orbsycli

I wish I could have gone to the gathering in colorado.

But, if you want DMT out of the colorado river toad:
dry some of the venom, then smoke out of a pipe specially designed for this kind of thing.

Hmm, do all toads of the genus buffo contain this material? PM me if you have access to illustrations or instructions about the type of smoking materials needed.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Hmm, do all toads of the genus buffo contain this material? PM me if you have access to illustrations or instructions about the type of smoking materials needed.

Honestly Moontanman? You're going to take advice on which toads to smoke and how to smoke them from a guy talking about himself in third person? Really?

-modest

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by modest

Honestly Moontanman? You're going to take advice on which toads to smoke and how to smoke them from a guy talking about himself in third person? Really?

-modest

Not quite, actually I've done some work (very little to be honest) with people here who do excavation work into Native American artifacts and they used local toads in ceremonies. I was curious as to the hows if this practice in modern times compared to those people. They skinned and dried the toads and then they smoked the skins Has to be the nastiest way to use a hallucinogen I have ever heard of. I am fascinated about this whole toad licking/smoking thing. I can't imagine wanting to get high that bad.

[Buffy]

And just a public reminder from The Buffy that our rules frown upon discussion of non-clinical experimentation with substances that are--at least in some jurisdictions--illegal, no matter whether one uses the third person or not....

Drugs are marvelous if you want to escape, but reality is so rich, why escape?
Buffy