Alchemy

[jorge_jmt]

I'm not trying to revive alchemy, nor saying it is true, if some of you do not consider it a science, at least it was a kind of primitive chemistry, the reason of why I published this thread was to open a discussion to talk about alchemy history, about alchemists, information about it, not to discuss if it is real or not, or if it is a science or not, I dont mean to be mean in any way, if I've offended some of you im sorry, that was not my intention.

[InfiniteNow]

No worries, Jorge... Just think if you'd posted this in Theology. Whoa... talk about walking away with a burned hiney.


One thing Hypo has a lot of is strong and well informed opinions, but if you ask questions about which you are genuinely curious, you may arrive at some greater degree of understanding as a result. While a wise man walks with his head bowed, there's no reason to do so in shame.


Cheers.

[Michaelangelica]

Reading a"Horrible Science" book for kids (Scolastic, 96).
I found the following fascinating little bits about alchemy:-

Charles II may have been poisoned by the mercury he used for alchemy experiments.

Sir Isac Newton (now there is one weird guy) went mad for 2 years after using mercury in alchemy experiments.

Alchemy started in Egypt in Roman times and in ancient China.

The element phosphorous was discovered by an alchemist whilst he was examining the contents of his own urine. (Hening Brand 1669)

A 17th century Chinese alchemist first described how to make gunpowder from sulphur, saltpetre and charcoal (saltpetre was extracted from rotting pig manure!

By 1700 scientists dropped the "al" (which means 'the' in Arabic) and called themselves chemists.

You can change metals into gold!!!
Ernest Rutherford (1871-1937). To make gold you zap bits off the atoms with a high energy ray. Unfortunately the easiest metal to turn into gold is platinum.
(Keep an eye on the rising world price for gold?)

[Qfwfq]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

A 17th century Chinese alchemist first described how to make gunpowder from sulphur, saltpetre and charcoal

17th century? Not AD, surely.

[ronthepon]

Hey yeah. The chinese had gunpowder since a long long time.(well more than 400 years anyway) Definite records exist of that.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by ronthepon

Hey yeah. The chinese had gunpowder since a long long time.(well more than 400 years anyway) Definite records exist of that.

I thought it was earlier than 17c myself
will look it up

Yes Scolastic are not renowned for their accuracy and proofing
One web source says "People first invented gunpowder in China, about 900 AD, during the Tang Dynasty. They made gunpowder by mixing saltpeter (potassium nitrate) with sulfur and carbon"

It took the west to turn Gunpowder into a weapon
(Although when was Gangis Khan? he had rocket propelled arrows)

Guess I'm wrong here too
"By 1126 AD, people in China learned to make rockets that would shoot from a bamboo tube, and bombs that would explode when they landed, which Chinese soldiers shot from catapults.
Thanks to the establishment of the Mongol Empire, which encouraged trade across Central Asia, news of this new invention was already reaching the Mamluks in West Asia only about 300 years later, about 1200 AD.
http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/war/gunpowder.htm

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

I thought it was earlier than 17c myself
will look it up

Perhaps they were not describing the first act of making gun powder, but instead the first time that particular method was used to do so...

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Perhaps they were not describing the first act of making gun powder, but instead the first time that particular method was used to do so...

No, it was the same method both times. same three chemicals were mentioned in both sources. Is there another way of making it?.

I was reading one strange medical book last night and they laughingly talked about an old doctor/alchemist that used pig dung to stop nose bleed.
If it contains lots of saltpeter would it work?

I know modern doctors have found that "blood-letting" actually drops body temperature. So there was some logic in using it with fevers. The problem was it was over-used and used for everthing.

[ronthepon]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

I know modern doctors have found that "blood-letting" actually drops body temperature. So there was some logic in using it with fevers. The problem was it was over-used and used for everthing.

Oooh! So that's a thought of some dangerous techniques: Lose heat from the body by throwing away some hot blood! Defenitely wicked!

[Mercedes Benzene]

Well although primitive, alchemy was very important to the development of modern-day chemistry. However, alchemy was most directly a philosophical practice connected to many of our modern-day sciences.
In essence, it was an all-encompasing research practice that influenced and was influenced by ancient and medevil culture and ideologies.
In regard to the previous posts, blood letting was practiced a lot in the past, and is still practiced some today by modern doctors. It has a fancy name (which I don't remember???) but it basically comes down to blood-transfusions in contemporary medicine...
The point is, alchemy was a very important precursor to today's sciences << especially chemistry.