Hho

[Jay-qu]

I see, so would it be better applied to say a spacecraft?

[GAHD]

Klein need not have patented it, the idea is OOOOLLLD See Brown's Gas
"Brown's gas (named for its inventor, Yull Brown) is a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen produced by electrolyzing water in a special way. Its proponents claim that it has unusual properties unlike those of an ordinary mixture of diatomic hydrogen and oxygen."

This is another patent office screw-up.

[GAHD]

P.S. I now see that C1ay knew this too, sharp one C1ay.

[ronthepon]

Originally Posted by Jay-qu

I see, so would it be better applied to say a spacecraft?

Actually hydrogen-oxygen mixture does not quite burn. It explodes!
So it's too unsafe even in spacecrafts.

Although, I think that hydrogen is used in rockets, except it is separated from oxygen.

[Jay-qu]

yeah I know they use H and O but what about the part how they store it all as water and electrolise it to make this brown mixture when needed - save on those massive fuel tanks.. only prob is a power source

[GAHD]

After a LOT of searching I found out Brown's U.S. patent #4014777 is in DISPUTE!

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...&RS=PN/4014777 for a look at the patent.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...y=PN%2F4081656 related patent

P.S. the disputer is William A. Rhodes who claims the original discovery (he's cited in the above link)

[GAHD]

also due to passing the gas through an arc (cited in patent) The gases atomize:
"A most important application of the invention is atomic welding utilising the properties of atomic oxygen in combination with atomic hydrogen (for welding)...the energy which can be obtained in this way can be appreciated from the following reactions that take place...H.sub.2 .fwdarw. H + H absorbing 101,000 cal. per gram mole O.sub.2 .fwdarw. 0 + 0 absorbing 117,000 cal. per gram mole total 218,000 cal. per gram mole" -- U.S. patent 4,081,656 (the second link I posted above)

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by GAHD

Klein need not have patented it, the idea is OOOOLLLD See Brown's Gas
"Brown's gas (named for its inventor, Yull Brown) is a mixture of oxygen and hydrogen produced by electrolyzing water in a special way. Its proponents claim that it has unusual properties unlike those of an ordinary mixture of diatomic hydrogen and oxygen."

This is another patent office screw-up.

Brown's gas is technically a mixture of H2 and O2 having the exact stochiometric ratio of 2/3 (or 66.66% by volume) of hydrogen and 1/3 (or 33.33% by volume) of oxygen.

This guy is trying to say that his gas is not Brown's gas but some new species of molecule, thus HHO. He's got a paper on it here. He claims the released hydrogen atoms form some kind of magnecular bond and that this pair forms a regular molecular bond with an oxygen atom, forming (HxH)-O. He's basically claiming a rearrangement of the water molecule that requires less energy than traditional electrolysis and effectively produces a burnable form of water.

I think it's just a way of attempting to dance around an existing patent that shouldn't exist in the first place.

[P-man]

Then what is the car running on?

[GAHD]

let's review:
Klein's gas:

1. flame temperature itself is only between 259° F to 279° F (126.11° C to 137.22 ° C) when combusted in ambient open air
2. produces no toxic fumes when burned because it is pure water
3. develops a temperature differential of from 270° F to well over 6000° C depending on the material substrate being worked, this alllows each material to be worked with dissimilar materials or separately without changing the fuel or its setting.
4. can be used as a conventional welding gas using standard gas welding equipment and techniques with superior results such as no oxidation, higher weld integrity, no burn back on weld cutting edges and almost no slag produced.
5. When the generator is used as a gas welder, new gas can weld, cut, braze, solder, metal clad and fuse ceramics, metals, cermets, glass, plastics and inter-metallic materials together such as metal-to-metal, metal to glass, ferrous to nonferrous and dissimilar metals to each other, a process hereto unavailable by true fusion.
6. when combusted, produces no ultra-violet radiation and it does not require special protective eyewear or clothing when used.
7. generated on location eliminating the need for gas tanks, bottles and large storage facilities that are inherently hazardous

-- source

Brown's Gas:

1. 'laser-like': long, thin, implosive
2. 'cool': radiates at 274°F / 129°C.
3. inherently a correct mixture
4. minimal flareout
5. does not require atmospheric oxygen to burn
6. does not deplete oxygen in area
7. can burn in vacuum
8. flame energy is controllable by volume of gas & distance from work (allows operator extreme precision and flexibility)
9. no harmful radiation emissions
10. clean: exhaust is pure water
11. flame is easily shut off & restarte
12. Brown's Gas reverts to pure water when burned.
13. Unique and efficient medium for transmitting electrical energy into materials
14. water and air dissipate the electrical energy with minimal heating
15. 3.8 times the energy potential of a diatomic flame of equal mass

--source

Seem familliar?

There is good reason U.S. Patent Application 2004/0149591 A1 is still patent-pending.

Klean's gas Debunk!
"...what is disclosed in the patent application does not convince or prove to me that magnecule HHO is formed and has any stability. Some analytical results, similar in description to those from the electric arc experiments, are available in the patent. No detailed data is given for energy released from these magnecules with storage time. There is no discussion of the materials or required electric and magnetic fields for containing or transferring this highly energetic gas...."