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View Poll Results: Do You Own a Gun?
Yes 11 23.91%
No 15 32.61%
Yes; for hunting/protection 7 15.22%
No; Guns should be banned 5 10.87%
No, But I am considering owning a gun 8 17.39%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-18-2007   #21 (permalink)
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Smile Re: Disorders of reason, and gun ownership and death data

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigD View Post
Gun-related Household gun
deaths/100000 ownership/100 Country
------------- ------------- -------
15.22 32.00 United States
14.15 NA Brazil
Japan [/code]This data in mind, I’m better equipped to respond to other points.Though we do top the list for gun-related death rate, the rate – 15.22/100,000 – is still very low compared to disease and other less scary causes. At least with regards to gun violence, for the large majority of people, the USA’s not that crazy a place.Forget Canada, with its gun death rate only 69% lower than USA’s – if you want to minimize your risk of gun-related death, Japan’s - with one 99.5% lower - the country for you!

Though you Aussies and Kiwis have reason to be proud of your 81% and 83% sub-USA gun death rates – especially the Kiwis, who have only a 18% lower rate of gun ownership!
Your logic is insane.
Disease?
Getting shot is NOT a disease!!
This is sooo sick
Your interpretation of statistics is wrong.
Your OWN statistics show the states has the highest gun ownership and the highest death rate.

I know I am not going to change you mind but you are all CRAZY!! in the USA!!!
Quote:
Some facts
Firearm injuries are the second leading cause of injury death in the United States and have killed more than 30,000 people every year since 1972 (4).

Firearms increase the lethality of violent incidents and are associated with roughly 70% of all homicides and 60% of all suicides; among youth aged 15 to 19 the proportions are even higher (80% and 68% respectively; 5 and 6).

In 1998, homicide was the leading cause of death for black and the second leading cause of death for Latino males aged 15 to 34. For both groups, firearm injuries were the leading cause of homicide and legal intervention deaths (3).
Unintentional shootings constitute 1-2% of gun fatalities, with a staggering number of these being children. Within five years, firearms are expected to surpass motor vehicle accidents as the leading cause of death among children (4).

In addition, there are roughly 84,000 non-fatal injuries to guns every year in this country. 20-25% of nonfatal gunshot injuries result in permanent, primarily neurological damage, in children (7).

Furthermore, survivors and their families endure lingering effects of firearm violence. Many survivors not only have to undergo months of reconstructive surgery and physical and occupational therapy, but also psychological counseling to deal with subsequent Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, depression, nightmares, insomnia, and emotional disturbances (8).

Such services are not without considerable financial expense. The average annual cost of firearm injury healthcare is $4 billion, with the estimated cost per fatal incident exceeding $14,000 (9). Without intervention, the prevalence of gun-related injury will increase significantly.
http://www.snma.org/downloads/snma_gun_violence.pdf
So how does buying more guns help?
You have been brainwashed by the people who sell guns.
You are so aware of this in other things; why so blind with guns?
You are all crazy!

We are looking to tighten our hand-gun controls in Oz

Do USA stats include accident and suicide?
Quote:
2005
A few months ago the the Australian Bureau of Statistics revealed that
the total number of gun deaths in Australia for year 2003, was 290.
This figure shows that there has been a great reduction in yearly gun
deaths since governments started to introduce stricter gun laws a
decade and a half ago. Here is the 2003 breakdown of gun deaths.

By Category:
* Accident 40
* Suicide 193
* Homicide 54
* Legal etc. 3
The total gun death figure of 290 compares most favourably with the
figures of the 1970's and 1980's when 700 was a typical approx. figure.
Thus we are witnessing the fact that because of the steady increase in
gun controls over 400 fewer Australian die from gun wounds each year
compared with two decades ago.
Gun Control Australia
more up-to-date figures here:-
Quote:
The new laws specifically targeted mass shootings, banning rapid-fire rifles and shotguns, the weapon of choice in many such crimes worldwide. In the 1996-97 Australian firearms buyback, 643,726 of the newly prohibited guns were bought by the Government from firearm owners at market value, funded by a small surcharge on the Medicare levy. Tens of thousands of gun owners also voluntarily surrendered additional, non-prohibited firearms without compensation. All up, more than 700,000 guns were removed from the community and destroyed. No other nation had ever attempted anything on this scale.
. . .
But for each Australian killed in a mass shooting in the past 17 years, 80 have died by gunshot in less mediagenic events, many of them in family violence. And it is here, in the day-to-day tragedy of firearm-related homicide and suicide, that Australia's new restrictions, and perhaps equally importantly, changing attitudes to guns and gun owners, can most plausibly claim to have had the most effect.

Even before Port Arthur, gun-related deaths, suicides, homicides and unintentional shootings were slowly dropping. But after the tragedy, the rate of decline accelerated markedly. From 1979 to 1996, 11,110 Australians died by gunshot - an annual average of 617. In the seven years after new gun laws were announced (1997 to 2003), the yearly average almost halved, to 331.

Particularly in firearm homicide, the gun death that attracts most attention, the downward trend has been more dramatic. In the same two periods, the average annual number of gun homicides fell from 93 to 56. But it was the acceleration in the rate of this decline that proved most remarkable, falling 70 times faster after the new gun laws than before.
A safer place after Howard's gun buyback - Opinion - theage.com.au

America is a strange, different country.
Full of strange people.
The world is shaking it's collective head in amazement as disbelief at your behaviour nationally and internationally.
Go on happily shooting each other.
It helps reduce global warming.
Talk about it among yourselves.
When will the next massacre happen?


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~Orson Scott Card

Last edited by Michaelangelica; 06-18-2007 at 05:50 PM.. Reason: fix formatting
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Old 06-18-2007   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Disorders of reason, and gun ownership and death data

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica View Post
I know I am not going to change you mind but you are all CRAZY!! in the USA!!!
And we own guns, punk... So you'd better back-up off us!





Did the ape protecting his territory with a stick reproduce more often than the ones trying to protect theirs with yells?
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Old 06-18-2007   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Do You Own a Gun ??

YES! Why? Sport, Comfort, I personally feel having a weapon enables me to protect my family, my self, my neighbors (unless they are the perpetrator). It is my right as an American. You never know what is going to happen from one day to the next. Home invasions happen and should it happen to us we are prepared.
Before my father died, one night the dogs were barking and we thought someone was outside. Well, we lived about 75 yards from the main road and 400 - 600 yards each other way from our neighbors. If something happened noone would hear a thing. So, he pulled out his 357 hand gun. It was loaded with different ammunition. Two bullets were made with shot, the next was a regular bullet, and the rest were hallow point. I asked him why and he said the first one is to scare him, the next is to warn him, the third is to wound him and if he keeps coming the rest are to kill him.
About a year or two before that I was living in Hawaii. I was in the driver seat of a car stopped at a red light. All of a sudden I hear a bashing sound. I look over my shoulder and 1 lane over 2 cars back there were 2 or 3 locals with baseball bats bashing someone's car and the driver too. I was scared to death, I didn't have a gun with me. I was thinking oh my what am I going to do to help this person? What can I do? Then it hit me, what if they come to my car and then I prepared to take off out of the intersection if they came close.
What if our family go on a road trip, we stop in Kentucky or Tennessee? What if we are having a picnic when a bear comes strolling out of the woods to eat us? CRAZY you think? It has happened. Maybe a year ago a bear bit a little toddler, the mother and then when the little sister ran off to get away the bear ran after her... Do you think our society is going to regress? I don't think we are going to start pulling the highrise buildings down and stop going into the woods. We need to be educated and safe people. Each of us have different experiences and different views there after. Just keep an open mind.


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Old 06-18-2007   #24 (permalink)
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Lightbulb Re: Do You Own a Gun ??

Sometimes even I listen to the wrong propaganda, it's OK you can believe whatever you want this is the USA and you do have that right.
and they can have my gun when they pry it from my cold dead hand.



70 Million More Guns…38% Less Violent Crime

Friday, September 22, 2006

Data released by the FBI on Monday showed that in 2005, the nation’s total violent crime rate was 38% lower than in 1991, when violent crime hit an all-time high. Rates of the individual categories of violent crime were also much lower in 2005 than in 1991. Murder was 43% lower, rape 25% lower, robbery 48% lower, and aggravated assault 33% lower. The FBI’s report came on the heels of a Bureau of Justice Statistics crime survey that found that violent crime was lower in 2005 than anytime in the survey’s 32-year history.

Defying the anti-gunners’ claim that more guns means more crime, from 1991-2005 the number of privately owned guns increased by more than 70 million.

The news media often characterize violent crime as a primarily gun-oriented problem, but the FBI’s report showed that only one in every four violent crimes in 2005 was committed with a gun. In 2005, as in previous years, most violent crimes were robberies and aggravated assaults, most of which were committed with knives or bare hands.

Recently, anti-gun politicians and activists have intensified their rhetoric over the “lack” of bans on handguns, so-called “assault weapons”, and .50-caliber rifles; gun registration, gun owner licensing, and mandatory background checks on sales of guns between friends and family members; and limits on the frequency of gun purchases, all of which they say are necessary to reduce the nation’s murder rate. But for the last seven years, the murder rate has been steady¾in the 5.5-5.7 per 100,000 population range¾at all times lower than anytime since the mid-1960s. In 2005, for example, the murder rate was 5.6.

Naturally, anti-gunners will downplay the downward trend in violent crime since 1991, and focus on the fact that the FBI’s report showed a 1% increase in total violent crime, and a 2% increase in murder in 2005, compared to 2004. But those changes are miniscule, compared to the huge decrease in crime over the last 14 years.

The FBI’s report once again confirmed that violent crime rates are lower in states with Right-to-Carry (RTC) laws. In 2005, RTC states had, on average, 22% lower total violent crime, 30% less murder, 46% lower robbery, and 12% lower aggravated assault rates, compared to the rest of the country.

As usual, Washington, D.C., which leads the nation in anti-gun laws, led the nation in murder, with a rate six times higher than the rest of the country. Neighboring Maryland, where gun control advocates have been particularly active recently, once again had the highest robbery rate among the states, but also tied for the unenviable distinction of “first place” in murder among the states. However, despite Maryland’s high crime counts, CeaseFire Maryland, the local Brady Campaign affiliate that recently released a paper demanding an “assault weapon” ban, was unable to point to any crimes in the state involving such a gun.

The FBI’s report must have displeased New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg (R). Despite the mayor’s recent posturing on the gun issue, and his self-laudatory comments about fighting crime, the Big Apple’s murder rate was more than double that of the rest of the state. Similarly, in Philadelphia, where anti-gun politicians are calling for a statewide one-gun-a-month law, the murder rate was more than seven times higher than the rest of Pennsylvania.

Adding to the reasons why voters should “Dump Doyle” in Wisconsin’s upcoming gubernatorial election, their state had the greatest total violent crime rate increase (15.1%) between 2004-2005. Murder was up 25.2%; robbery up 11.2%; and aggravated assault up 20.2%. Wisconsin is one of only two states that prohibits Right-to-Carry entirely, but in 2005, 11 of the 12 states that had the greatest decreases in total violent crime, and 12 of the 14 states with the greatest decreases in murder were Right-to-Carry states. The seven states with the lowest total violent crime rates in 2005, and 11 of the 12 states that had the lowest murder rates, were Right-to-Carry states.

Last, but not least, is good news from Florida, the state that during the last 20 years has been most often attacked by anti-gunners, for (among other reasons) setting the Right-to-Carry and “Castle Doctrine” movements in motion. In 2005, Florida recorded a murder rate 13% lower than the rate for the rest of the country (4.96 per 100,000, vs. 5.67 for the rest of the country). For the record, Florida’s 2005 murder rate was 58% lower than it was in 1986, the last year before the state’s landmark Right-to-Carry law took effect.


NRA-ILA :: Legislation


Gun control laws may be partly at fault in massacre

By John R. Lott Jr.

The tragic attack on Wednesday at Windy City Core Supply left six people murdered. What can be learned from the attack? Acting Chicago Police Supt. Phil Cline was already being described in the press as taking ''a swipe at lenient U.S. gun controls.''

The attack took place in a city where new handguns since 1982 are already banned, a giant so-called ''gun-free safe zone.'' Yet, consider the following: Suppose you or your family are being stalked by a criminal who intends on harming you. Would you feel safer putting a sign in front of your home saying ''This Home is a Gun-Free Zone''?

It is pretty obvious why we don't put these signs up. As with many other gun laws, law-abiding citizens--not would-be criminals--would obey the sign. Instead of creating a safe zone for victims, it leaves victims defenseless and creates a safe zone for those intent on causing harm.

Fortunately, legislators around the country are realizing this. In 1985, just eight states had the most liberal right-to-carry laws--laws that automatically grant permits once applicants pass a criminal background check, pay their fees and, when required, complete a training class. Today the total is 35 states. In a new book, The Bias Against Guns, Bill Landes of the University of Chicago Law School and I examine multiple-victim public shootings in the United States from 1977 to 1999 and find that when states passed right-to-carry laws, these attacks fell by 60 percent. Deaths and injuries from multiple-victim public shootings fell on average by 78 percent.

No other gun control law had any beneficial effect. Indeed, right-to-carry laws were the only policy that consistently reduced these attacks.

Gun control laws may be partly at fault in massacre


U.S. Gun-Control Laws Don't Save Lives - The Last Word

For instance, it does not require overcredentialed academics to commit study after study to conclude whether the graphic violence that is routine on television and in the movies has an effect on young viewers: It unarguably affects them. At the very least it dangerously denies the pain that always is part of violence in the real world.
An even more obvious area of attention is firearms. To those of liberal piety, gun control is not just the first commandment but all 10 (they have tossed the Biblical version over the side anyhow). Rid America of the curse of firearms, they loudly proclaim, and no one ever need lock his doors at night. That's nonsense. Gun control as these zealots conceive it would be effective only in disarming the law-abiding.

U.S. Gun-Control Laws Don't Save Lives - The Last Word Insight on the News - Find Articles



There is more like this, but I think I made my point.


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Old 06-18-2007   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Do You Own a Gun ??

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Originally Posted by InfiniteNow View Post
What's the difference between your two affirmative options (choices 1 & 3)?
Still waiting for clarification.

Was Jay-qu's supposition accurate?
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Old 06-18-2007   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Do You Own a Gun ??

For leading causes of death in the US Please see: cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
I actually think there are more accidental health/surgery related deaths.


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Old 06-18-2007   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Do You Own a Gun ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star30 View Post
For leading causes of death in the US Please see: cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
I actually think there are more accidental health/surgery related deaths.
While this may be true, I believe most individuals go into surgery with a certain degree of understanding of the risk involved. They also are asked to read a detailed description of what the risks are, how they may manifest, and are asked to sign off that they understand them. I'm not so sure that everyone who gets shot has such an ability to make a personal decision which would ultimately effect this outcome.
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Old 06-18-2007   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Do You Own a Gun ??

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Originally Posted by DougF View Post
70 Million More Guns…38% Less Violent Crime

Friday, September 22, 2006

Data released by the FBI on Monday showed that in 2005, the nation’s total violent crime rate was 38% lower than in 1991, when violent crime hit an all-time high....
Doug, while I won't disagree with the facts you listed. Correlation does not prove a cause effect relationship.
Another interesting correlation is that 1991 was 18 years after Roe vs Wade allowed states to decide if abortion was legal or not. New York city was one of the first to legalize abortion. It was also one of the first to reflect a lower crime rate in the early 90s. Just as easily as saying the drop in crime was due to more guns, one could say the drop in crime was due to fewer unwanted children.
Please note, I am not proposing this is the reason, and I DON'T want to sidetrack this thread (if someone wants to start a different one that is fine).
I am simply saying that the argument based on that correlation (more guns less crime) doesn't mean anything unless backed up with additional data.

Michaelagelica, I don't think the implication was gun deaths and not significant. What was said was that the number of deaths is actually a very low percentage. Yes, it is a higher percentage than other countries. No, it is not higher for the general populace than disease or other causes. So while there is some logic in being afraid of being shot, there is more logic in being afraid of cholesterol


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Old 06-18-2007   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Do You Own a Gun ??

Guns should be banned, but I have one.

My neighborhood is nice, but we are crammed in tight, 2 miles in Chicago is a very long ways, and I do get around to different neighborhoods.

Now that it's summer if I go outside my girlfriend's apartment between 3:30-5 am, I will hear automatic gunfire in the distance.

I've seen someone get shot dead in a club before, , had to dive for cover a few times because people were shooting, and I'm a girl...really bad things could happen to me if I meet the wrong person at the wrong time.
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Old 06-18-2007   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Do You Own a Gun ??

Zythryn, I agree with what you are saying indirectly. InfiniteNow, that's not what I was saying. Give me a break.
Do you think that our Health Care System makes no mistakes? Do you think that everyone is as educated as yourself or more going into surgery? Do you think everyone listens and comprehends to the full extent what is going to happen? Do you think it is possible that patients put their lives in the surgeons hands expecting they know what they are doing with unrealistic expectations of pulling out with no complications?
Whether it be a GUN, a knife, a baseball bat, a car anything can be considered a weapon. Take the recent killings at Virginia Tech, Cho would have found a weapon if Guns had not been available. Mental Illness was the underlying cause. In my opinion had Cho not been able to obtain the Guns he possibly could have done more harm in another way.

Education and giving a damn will make a difference.


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