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View Poll Results: Should Pluto be reinstated as a planet?
Yes 13 46.43%
No 15 53.57%
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Old 09-01-2009   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Should Pluto be reinstated as a planet?

ehn...The only planets that matter are those which can be inhabited or made habitable (through whatever means it can be achieved) by humans... it would most royally suck very much bad to have to memorize the names thousands of stones with grandiose delusions of planetary grandness.


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Old 09-01-2009   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Should Pluto be reinstated as a planet?

Well yeah. lol But the 'rounded by its own gravity' (I forget the technical term) stipulation remedies that scenario.


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Old 09-01-2009   #33 (permalink)
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Post The naming controversy - origin and cures(?)

My favorite aspect of the “Pluto is/isn’t a planet” “controversy” is it’s lack of seriousness. From scientists to politicians to most laypeople, whether Pluto is officially classified as a planet, dwarf planet, a KBO, SDO, TNO, Plutoid, or any of a wealth of classifications, isn’t, I think, of much consequence. The controversy is less of a debate than an opportunity to learn more about astronomy.

Nonetheless, I think the controversy would have long been a mere historic curiosity, if 16th century astronomy had moved toward the taxonomological rigor that biology did by the 18th century. The whole Pluto controversy is essentially about nomenclature – naming. We have descriptive, widely accepted terms for Sun-orbiting bodies such as “gas giant planet” that doesn’t “disqualify” its referents from the supercategory of “planets”, but the new “dwarf planet” term seems to be taken as in some sense derogatory. Why gas giant planets are considered planets, but dwarf planets not, strikes me as an twist of language and psychology. I’m puzzled that most people don’t share DougF’s opinion:
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Originally Posted by DougF View Post
I think a 'dwarf planet' should be considered a 'planet?'
Perhaps the IAU definition of “planet” would have fared better with astronomers and the public at large if it had promoted an multi-word term like “orbit clearing planet” rather than restricting the definition of the canonic term “planet”. “The Solar System has only eight orbit-clearing planets” strikes me as less provocative than “The Solar System has only eight planets”.

Methinks maybe the roots of the controversy go back much further, to the unfortunate Copernican revolutionary choice to acknowledge the similar nature of the Earth and five other known Sun-orbiting bodies by terming them all “planets”. Planet, most of us know, is a Greek word for “wanderer”, descriptive of their irregular motion as viewed in the Earth’s sky. Terming Earth a “wanderer” was somewhat analogous to acknowledging the anatomical kinship between humans and birds by calling humans birds.

We could, therefore, reclaim the old, old school definition of “planet” as an object visible with the naked eye that moves relative to the stars. We’d then have somewhere from five to ten or so, depending on whether the Moon (or even the Sun) is included, and whether object that an extraordinarily sharp-eyed person can detect given precise directions where to look. By this definition, +5.4 visible magnitude Vesta is a planet, while +5.5 Uranus might not be, and +7.8 magnitude Neptune certainly isn’t. +13.7 magnitude Pluto – forgettaboutit.


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Old 09-01-2009   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Should Pluto be reinstated as a planet?

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Originally Posted by Southtown View Post
Well yeah. lol But the 'rounded by its own gravity' (I forget the technical term) stipulation remedies that scenario.
I don't see how. Icy planetoids are rounded by their own gravity at only 200 - 400 km, rocky planetoids at around 900 km. The current list of such 'candidates' in the solar system is greater than 70 and the list is expected to expand to 2,000:
Quote:
However, based on present knowledge of how icy bodies gravitationally relax into equilibrium shapes, there are a significant number of potential candidates amongst the population of trans-Neptunian objects (TNOs).[4] There were some 70 candidates as of 2008, but it is possible that this number will increase to as many as 2000.
List of dwarf planet candidates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If we want to keep the number of planets below ~1,000 we need some further stipulation to the definition than hydrostatic equilibrium.

~modest


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Old 09-01-2009   #35 (permalink)
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Re: The naming controversy - origin and cures(?)

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Originally Posted by CraigD View Post
Perhaps the IAU definition of “planet” would have fared better with astronomers and the public at large if it had promoted an multi-word term like “orbit clearing planet” rather than restricting the definition of the canonic term “planet”. “The Solar System has only eight orbit-clearing planets” strikes me as less provocative than “The Solar System has only eight planets”.
Yah, but carry this one step further: it's "provocative" precisely because it's exclusionary. What the IAU *really* did was they said in effect "Pluto isn't a *real* planet, and "nyah" to all those stupid rube non-scientists who still think so."

Science is full of this sort of garbage: "there's no such thing as a Brontosaurus" or "it's spelled NeanderTAL."

The effect of this "over-specification" is always "we're real scientists and you're not."

Sometimes it's even after the fact, which makes it all the more annoying.

It's just so....anti-Hypography!

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Old 09-02-2009   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Should Pluto be reinstated as a planet?

I might be oversimplifying, but I don't think its possible (or even desirable) to create a universally applicable taxonomy with only nine fossils.


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