Matter & Energy

[Whitestar]

Hi.

I'm an aspiring science fiction writer and I'm currently developing a story in which scientists have
created the first teleportation device. I am having a somewhat difficult time as to how I want it
to work. I'm considering using a matter-energy conversion type of teleporter, which involves
converting a person into energy and sending it like a radio signal, in which that person will travel
at the speed of light. Once the person arrives at the destination, the energy is reconverted back
into matter. But there are some things about this theorical technology that I find questionable.

For example, if you don't convert an individual into energy, you have a large chunck of matter
such as a light adult weighing about sixty kilograms that needs to be put into some sort of
suspension matrix for transportation. Okay, on to more ethical implications on this theorical
technology. Let's say that John Doe undergoes teleportation by converting him into energy and
back into matter once he's reached his destination, would it still be the same person? A replica,
maybe? Perhaps it's a matter of semantics; a replica may be an imprecise term. The assumption
is that the John Doe who steps off the teleportation device will for all intent and purpose be the
exact same as the person who stepped on, with all his physical features, thought processes,
personality and memory, even his brainwave patterns. However, I think that under this
technological theory, it will still be a reconstruction of the original, NOT the original itself.

I am aware of the fact that today's use of teleportation requires quantum entanglements, but I
would like to create my own type of teleporter, this is afterall, science fiction. The thing that
troubles me is the matter-energy conversion process plausible? That is, will it ensure and
preserve personal survival (life) or death?


Thoughts anyone?

[Tormod]

Hi Whitestar -

what is the difference between this post and your earlier post on the subject? Have you got any further? The replica discussion we did only a few weeks ago...check the forums and you'll find it.

And of course...feel free to follow up if it does not give you any useful ideas.

Tormod

[gravmania]

A "teleporter" is an ultimate technology and should be avoided if sci-fi stories.
One can conquer the galaxy/universe with nothing but teleporters (and nukes).
Almost any problem encountered in Startrek could have been solved with teleporters.
One doesn't even really need warpdrives if one has teleporters.
For me personally they can really ruin a good story.

gravmania

[Bo]

Simply saying: Well we transform this and this to Energy, somehow we capture thewavefunction of every particle and then we rebuild this all somewhere else is quite sloppy of course... and in practice you would run into huge problems (which i wont even begin to discuss )
Welll for other ideas: you can look at my post on extra dimensional gravity in the "gravity problem" threat on the physics board. Dont know exactly how you should use this, but still it might be nice
another thing you might consider is: Brian Greene showed that the 11D space time manifold does not always have to be rigid or compact. So in principle it is possible to rip spacetime apart in a very crude and unsubtle way. Maybe with this you can make some sort of wormhole but instead of curving a 4D spacetime manifold, You take the curvature of one of the higher dimensions string theory predicts to make your travel. (which somewhere even makes more sense, since they are finite and closed) (you should read 'the elegant universe' By Greene, it's a great book in which topics like these are explained)
Onother thing you could consider is nontrivial extra time dimensions (which could be infinite or finite). As you might know string theory predicts 10 spacetime dimensions. And in general it is thought that this would mean: 1 time direction and a bunch of space directions. But in principle in your book you could state that there are actuall 2 dime directions and 8 or so space directions. You could create some sort of teleportation by saying that someone stands still in 'our' time, which he can only do by travelling through the other time dimension (and space of course, otherwise he wouldn't get anywhere...) If you make this seconde time dimension finite and closed; At a certain time in that dimension he wel get back at his starting point (and can continue to travel in normal time), while in space he has travelled some....

Just to get this right: I dont think any of the above is anywhere near a realistic idea for teleportation, but still, speculation is neat

Hop you can do something whith this, Bo

[Whitestar]

Hi Bo.


Actually, I am considering using the extra dimensions concept for teleportation. However, I also have a couple of other possibilities for teleportation.


Hole Teleportation - Atoms are mostly empty space, right? What makes a wall solid is not the existence of the particles but of the electric fields between the particles. For example, my hand is stopped from going through my desk when I slam it down primarily because of the electric repulsion felt by the electrons in the atoms in my hand due to the presence of the electrons in the atoms of the desk and not because of the lack of available space for the electrons to move through. Hence, the way to accomplish teleportation is to overcome the electric forces between atoms.


Let's say a crew member wishes to teleport from the ship to his house. The teleport system first has to send a particle scanner that can penetrate the ceiling of his house without punching a hole in it. Think of it like infrared vision or something similar. Next, a beam of light peers through the floor of the ship (as well as the ceiling of the teleportee's house) by overcoming the bonds between the atoms themselves. A secondary beam envelops the teleportee. This secondary beam protects the teleportee by preventing his electrical bonds from breaking apart, unlike the floor on the ship and the ceiling of his house.


The teleportee is then send through this beam and enters his house with no problems. Finally, the beam deactivates and the electric charges that hold the ceiling, as well as the floor of the ship reattaches itself. I would like to stress that the secondary beam operates by overcoming the electric forces that hold the atoms together, but not so much that the matter of the floor on the ship and the ceiling in the house collapses, just enough to permit entry and exit to and from the ship/planet.


Space Warp Teleportation - Here is my other theory on teleportation. Picture this: a crew member steps onto the teleporter pad and the space around him or her begins to get distorted. The teleporter folds space which in turn allows the teleportee to teleport from the ship to the inside of a building without punching a hole in it.


Based on what I listed here, which form or type of teleportation seems to be the most plausible for humans? Quantum teleportation, matter/energy conversion, extra dimensions, wormholes, hole teleportation or space warp teleportation?


Whitestar

[Bo]

Well the idea of hole teleportation seems highly inplausible to me, because the ability to interact electromagneticlu (or strong and weak; these interactions are necessary to consider) are intrinsic properties of particles. your theory needs these properties to be altered. Since these properties are intrinsic to your origninall particles, you need to change the type of particles into something that doesnt interact with anything (no such particles are ever predicted). Well since a change from particle A to B means that particle B interacts in some way with particle A, this is simply not possible.`
as to what in my oppinion is the 'best' sollution: Well definitly not something on the elementary particle level, because quantum uncertainty would spoil any attempt. Also matter/energy conversion methods will fail because of these uncertainties.
In my oppinion the only "plausiable" (but still highly questionable!) options involve manipulations of spacetime. So i think the options then are:
1) The 'standard' worm hole: our 4D space time manifold folds back onto itself 2) Our 4D manifold doesn't fold back into itself, but instead is curved in such a way that a small path in a 5th dimension links 2 distant points. 3) There's an extra time dimension. You would still need to travel normally, but in the normal world no time is lost. 4) instead of nicely folded, space time is ripped apart and then reassembled in a different way.
note: a) that 2-4 need string theory to work; b)we have no means to effectively curve space time so that it folds back onto itself (you need density's of the order of a black hole; this would ruin any spaceship ) for the ripping of spacetime: we have no idea what can cause that (we only know that it is in principle not forbidden by the laws of string theory); c)Higher dimensions, if they exist at all, are only accassible at extremely high energy's; higher dimensions are most probably infinitly small and so could never be used in any kind of travel; d) If they aren't infinitly small, then our ordinary matter (actually everything except maybe the graviton) is confined to our normal 4D manifold.
So many problems are still left...Hope this helps your thoughts a little bit.[\n]
Bo

[Freethinker]

Let's see tachyon particles or by varying probablility and using variable probablility.

[Whitestar]

Hi Bo.


Your comment,


"Well the idea of hole teleportation seems highly inplausible to me, because the ability to interact electromagneticlu (or strong and weak; these interactions are necessary to consider) are intrinsic properties of particles. your theory needs these properties to be altered. Since these properties are intrinsic to your origninall particles, you need to change the type of particles into something that doesnt interact with anything (no such particles are ever predicted). Well since a change from particle A to B means that particle B interacts in some way with particle A, this is simply not possible."


Interesting. I must confess I do not completely understand.


1) Could you please elaborate on this?


Your second comment,


"Also matter/energy conversion methods will fail because of these uncertainties."


2) How would the conversion of matter into energy and vice-versa be related to the uncertainty principle?


Your third comment,


"Higher dimensions, if they exist at all, are only accassible at extremely high energy's; higher dimensions are most probably infinitly small and so could never be used in any kind of travel; d) If they aren't infinitly small, then our ordinary matter (actually everything except maybe the graviton) is confined to our normal 4D manifold."



3) If these extra dimensions are not infinitely small, why would they be useless to use for travel?


Your fourth comment,


"that 2-4 need string theory to work; b)we have no means to effectively curve space time so that it folds back onto itself (you need density's of the order of a black hole; this would ruin any spaceship ) for the ripping of spacetime: we have no idea what can cause that (we only know that it is in principle not forbidden by the laws of string theory)"


4) Could it be possible in theory to curve space-time within the confines of Earth like in Sliders?


Whitestar

[GAHD]

"Well the idea of hole teleportation seems highly inplausible to me...."

I would agree so, though if there were a way to alter the 'brane particles to have an extra dimension for the time involved, the limitations would not be applicable.

Space Warp Teleportation - I would not consider this appropriate; it leaves too much chance for the matter involved to combine as the atmosphere would then technically occupy the same space as the teleportee. If this method was modified to 'cut' the 2 pieces of space from the rest of the universe and to 'paste' them into each other's place then it might work.

[Freethinker]

I am trying to remember where I read about using quantum pairs. By "Scanning" with one of the pair which would cause it's spin to be established and this would communicate the info to the other of the pair at some distance, instantly. Thus by picking the right particle you would be picking the pair particle that would be at the correct other location.

Perhaps it was in Schroedinger's Kittens?