IC architecture

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2005
KickAssClown's Avatar
Game Designer

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: on the Material Plane (Physical Universe)
Posts: 1,474
KickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via MSN to KickAssClown Send a message via Yahoo to KickAssClown
Question IC architecture

I've been wondering for a very long time how a computer works internally. I mean how would I put together a motherboard and make a processor and all. The basics.

(may I advertise Positions for my gaming project?)

Last edited by KickAssClown; 04-21-2006 at 02:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2005
TeleMad's Avatar
Suspended

Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,249
TeleMad is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: IC arcutecture

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssClown
I've been wondering for a very long time how a computer works internally. I mean how would I put together a motherboard and make a processor and all. The basics.
You wouldn't make a processor.

I you have a local Books-a-Million, Barnes & Noble, or similar large bookstore chain, there should be numerous books that tell you how to assemble your own computer from off-the-shelf components. Some other books will explain how a computer works internally.

The book/series I like best - though it is not necessarily for complete nubies - is Scott Mueller's "Upgrading and Repairing PCs".
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2005
alexander's Avatar
Resident USSRian
Hypography Staff Member
Administrator
Gallery Curator
Dev Team Member
Re: IC arcutecture

I tried a quick search on how stuff works, but couldnt come up with anything good, so i'll do a brief description myself.

Computer operates on the basic principal of transistors, what do transistors do? well a transistor has 3 nodes, and depending on a signal on 2 there would or would not be a signal on the 3rd node and that is how computer operates.

You are probably wondering what is next huh? Well, the foundation of computers lies within transistors, but more than just that, it lies within the logic that transistors bring with them. You have probably heard of binary, but if you havent, binary is a way of expressing a number in base 2, with only 2 digits that are allowed being 1 and 0, in computers however those digits represent a signal or no signal at a certain point, and that, together with boolean logic is what makes the heart of the processor. Boolean implies on true and false, or 1 and 0 or signal and no signal, and transistors can be used, together with that logic to produce structures, tunnels, rules which drive the machine. This brings me back to the types of transistors. Basic transistor logic (i will put the ways transistors can act in a mathematical-like notation 0 + 0 = 0 for example says that if there is no signal on the first node, and no signal on the second node, the output from the transistor is 0)
0 + 0 = 0
1 + 0 = 0
0 + 1 = 0
1 + 1 = 1
1 + 0 = 1
0 + 1 = 1
and this concludes the 6 basic structures within of logic with transistors. Processors have trilions of transistors, organized into pathways within it, pathways allow or disallow the flow of electricity within them, directing the current one way or another between the nodes on the processor allowing for computation.

That was all the core stuff that makes it possible for the computer to do any mathematical computation in binary, but there are other parts of the computer too, like memory for example. Memory is every where, and most operates on the principal of magnetism and again boolean logic , yes yes this logic is essential to computer operation, the information in memory is stored in cells, cells contain a tiny magnet that can either be charged or not charged or be facing north or south, method depends on the system, but in any case, charge represents a 1, and gets porocessed as a signal, and 0 represents no signal, and at the core of all memory resides a table that contains the location of all the cells, creating kind of like an array of memory cells, what are memory cells? Well, it is not a good idea to store any information in a single 1/0, otherwise, how can you possibly record anything useful? however 1/0 is the smallest particle in memory, sort of like an atom, it also has a name and is called a bit. 8 of these bits is enough to store a byte, or any character that you can input in the system, because 8 bits allows for 255 combinations of 8 1/0s. A byte is also what the memory works with, as it mostly mamages them instead of bits per say. Bytes are from there organized into larger blocks, what you have to remember is that computer is all based on the powers of 2, and thus you dont get 5 or 10, you get 4 and 8, but 1024 bytes make up a kilobyte thus 1 kilobyte of memory can store up to 1024 characters, a megabyte is 1024 kilobytes and thus can store a shattering 1,048,567 characters, enough to store a few books. Then 1024 megabytes = a gigabyte (1,073,741,824 characters or a few libraries of books) 1024 gigabytes are equal a terabyte and so on (or more than all the books ever written)... (hope i'm getting this right as i write)

Anyways from there on to the I/O devices, and the way they work is they take a piece of data and asign a certain value to it (encode it) send it to the motherboard, which then directs the information to a processor which then decides what to do with the data and what command to give to the system , if any. The output device just takes all that data it receives and after decoding it, outputs it to the whatever it outputs it to (most of the time using its own system). For example say you type a letter "a", that signal gets translated to an ascii 97 that is then sent in a pattern similar to 01100001, then the data is run through a program that figures out what 01100001 is and finds a which pixels on a screen it needs to light up along with the location of those pixels, from there that data travels to the monitor which figures out what it is supposed to display, where and what color each pixel needs to be and then displays an "a" on the screen...

well, i have spent a lot of time trying to do my bst on this basic tutorial, i dont have much more time, i hope this gives you the basics, if you have questions, please, you are welcome to ask, bye for now
__________________
And remember that great question that Pierre-Simon Laplace and Sir Isaac Newton, Andrei Markov and David Hilbert, Richard Feynman and Enrico Fermi, Albert Einstein and Edmund Halley did not come to ask throughout all of their dedication and work: "Who the hell is IMing me?"


This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2005
C1ay's Avatar
¿42?
Hypography Staff Member
Administrator
Senior Editor
Editor

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: 33.78N 84.66W
Posts: 5,756
C1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant futureC1ay has a brilliant future
Re: IC arcutecture

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssClown
I've been wondering for a very long time how a computer works internally. I mean how would I put together a motherboard and make a processor and all. The basics.
How binary works
Boolean logic
How microprocessors work
More on hardware.
__________________
Clay

Editor and Forum Administrator
stego anyone?
Add yourself to Hypography's Frappr.
"There are only 10 kinds of people in the world --
.....Those who understand binary, and those who don't."
"Draw no conclusions before their time."
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2005
KickAssClown's Avatar
Game Designer

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: on the Material Plane (Physical Universe)
Posts: 1,474
KickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of lightKickAssClown is a glorious beacon of light
Send a message via MSN to KickAssClown Send a message via Yahoo to KickAssClown
Re: IC arcutecture

ok
Perhaps I wen way to basic on that Question.
I am a learned Computer nerd. I know binary and can count in hexadecimal. I can do boolean arithmatic and understand the semi-conductor properties of a transistor. i know how the bus is supposed to work and can build a Desktop or Laptop from scratch (off shelf components) can mod know about core voltages and all kindas of other bullsh**.

I want to know how to design a Processor from scratch. Ultimately I want to make a new standard for Personal Computing. Update the current technology while thinning out the old stuff. Redesign the current standard to optimize performance and stuff.

I have an intense interest in basics. I wish to make the Off the store Components but I can't comprehend how a bunch of transistors can work together to produce a varible image and I/O.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2005
TeleMad's Avatar
Suspended

Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,249
TeleMad is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: IC arcutecture

Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssClown
I want to know how to design a Processor from scratch. Ultimately I want to make a new standard for Personal Computing. Update the current technology while thinning out the old stuff. Redesign the current standard to optimize performance and stuff.
So not only do you want to reinvent the wheel, you think you can do it better than the combined effort of thousands of eggheads over the past several decades who also have access to multi-million dollar fabrication plants with state of the art photolithographic devices ... and you're going to do this by yourself at home?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2005
alexander's Avatar
Resident USSRian
Hypography Staff Member
Administrator
Gallery Curator
Dev Team Member
Re: IC arcutecture

Quote:
semi-conductor properties of a transistor
technically transistors dont have semicinductive properties, they either allow current through or dont (you might be confusing them with resistors) (ofcourse that is arguable on microvolt level, but i think you get the concept)

Also to add to TeleMads post above, do you program in assembly? do you know what a processor is supposed to do and can you write programs in binary? I mean here is a basic how (http://computer.howstuffworks.com/microprocessor3.htm), but how good are you with electronics, no not devices, actual electronics concepts? Knowing how the computer operates and how you can build one does not give you anywhere near enough knowledge to even compare to the basics needed to understand exact ways that microprocessors work, never mind even the building portion of one. As Tele said above, there are hundreds of scientists in many areas working on the creation of new microprocessors, hundreds of programmers writing the Bios and instruction sets for processors, because just a processor woud sit there and not do anything, yeah power will run through it, but how do you controll it. You also need to build a motherboard, at least for testing and you would need equipment that costs billions of dollars to produce the test processor to be anywhere near the reasonable size, never mind the price of gold for all the wiring and trials before you get a working processor, and all the stuff you would have to add to your house to make it dust proof for assembly and a space station for growing silicone with embedded transistors, oh and the transistors themselves are not too bg either, microns in length, they will also dig deep down in your pocket
__________________
And remember that great question that Pierre-Simon Laplace and Sir Isaac Newton, Andrei Markov and David Hilbert, Richard Feynman and Enrico Fermi, Albert Einstein and Edmund Halley did not come to ask throughout all of their dedication and work: "Who the hell is IMing me?"


This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2005
Curious

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The not-so-great nation of Sweden
Posts: 7
Meathim is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: IC arcutecture

You can always jump on the quantum-train if you want to make a new standard.
But you should be able to build a processor at home... A REALLY primitive one, but it should be possible.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2005
Buffy's Avatar
Resident Slayer
Hypography Staff Member
Administrator
3D Championship Golf Champion!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sunnydale, CA
Posts: 6,657
Buffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond reputeBuffy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: IC arcutecture

If you're interested in learning how the circuits work, I recommend playing with TTL logic chips. I haven't looked in years, but when I was in school many years ago, we had to build basic logic circuits with them (they're basically AND/OR/NOR gates and flip-flops of various types that alexander described above), and they're exactly the same building blocks that you work with inside of IC chips. You can still find these in electronics stores or on the internet, but they're mostly worthless and have no practical application anymore. We also had to design in our computer architecture classes a 68000 microprocessor using these things (not build it, just draw the chips and their connections on paper, lots of it): microprocessors were much simpler in those days of course! You can also still find programmable logic arrays and burn them, again, really old tech, and you'll have to hunt to find it. There are some IC design programs out there, but I've never played with them: they are toys, and if you want to play with the big boys you'll need to fork over big bucks like the above posts say. If you really want to do this, go to school and learn it for real and then get a job at Intel or AMD or NVidia. There's no other way to do this...

Cheers,
Buffy
__________________
"If you do not agree with anything I say, I'll not only retract it, but deny under oath that I ever said it!"
__________________________________________________ ______________-- Tom Lehrer

"The shrinks diagnosed me a sociopath with paranoid delusions. But they’re just out to get me cause I threatened to kill them."


Forum Administrator
Hypography Science Forums - Science for Boys and Girls! Its not for nothing that we hang out here.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2005
alexander's Avatar
Resident USSRian
Hypography Staff Member
Administrator
Gallery Curator
Dev Team Member
Re: IC arcutecture

Quote:
But you should be able to build a processor at home... A REALLY primitive one, but it should be possible.
Course you can, look, battery, few wires, a transistor (make sure that the transistor you get follows the logic "if node 1 has power, and 2 doesnt then power to node 3" (nodes are also called legs or emmiter and collector and base) in other words get a PNP transistor (if you are using a 9 volt battery, you'd want to use transistor PNP 2SA952)), a switch and a lightbulb (that matches the parameters of the power supply) and connect them this way: + to Base, - to collector lightbulb to emmiter and - to - or ground on lightbulb. You also want to put in a switch between the first node of the transistor and power. ok, plug in the power and flip the switch, hope that the light comes on, now turn the switch off, you just did an operation with your own very primitive processor
__________________
And remember that great question that Pierre-Simon Laplace and Sir Isaac Newton, Andrei Markov and David Hilbert, Richard Feynman and Enrico Fermi, Albert Einstein and Edmund Halley did not come to ask throughout all of their dedication and work: "Who the hell is IMing me?"


This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 License.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cell Architecture alexander Computer Science 4 04-07-2005
New Architecture Proposed for Quantum Computing C1ay Technology News 0 03-19-2005

» Current Poll
Favorite James Bond?
Sean Connery - 63.64%
7 Votes
George Lazenby - 0%
0 Votes
David Niven - 9.09%
1 Vote
Roger Moore - 9.09%
1 Vote
Timothy Dalton - 9.09%
1 Vote
Pierce Brosnan - 0%
0 Votes
Daniel Craig - 9.09%
1 Vote
Hate 'em all - 0%
0 Votes
Who's James Bond? - 0%
0 Votes
Total Votes: 11
You may not vote on this poll.

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2000-2008 Hypography
Part of the Hypography - Science for Everyone Network