[freeztar]

Originally Posted by DougF

Hello freeztar,
I live in Central Florida (Leesburg) I'm a Surveyor by profession (25 years), and find myself locating swamps and wetland on more then one occasion, I think I might have a pic or two of me neck deep in some of the more beautiful wetlands of Florida. I'm one of those guys thats locating all of those trees and creating the nice topographic maps.
let me gather some links to local info on Wetland Delineators, and I'll post if you would like.

Cool Doug. I work with surveyors quite a bit and I can tell you I'm not envious of their job. You guys have some seriously dirty work at times. Surveyors have told me stories of being confronted by hoardes of cottonmouths while in a boat, and they seem to get more ticks than a wild dog.
Some pics would be cool as I love the wetlands in Florida. Ever seen the movie "Adaptation"?

[DougF]

freeztar
Ever seen the movie "Adaptation"?

No not that one, just watch the trailer though looks good and I'll nave to check it out.

This just about covers my thoughts on mitigation.

Restoration and mitigation of wetlands - Plant Management in Florida Waters

Mitigation is an umbrella term for attempting to improve or replace one or more wetland features that have been lost. Given the high rate of development that is taking place in the United States today, significant amounts of wetlands are being lost. Section 404 of the Clean Water Act seeks to offset these losses by requiring that any wetlands destroyed by activities such as highway construction, coastal drainage, or commercial development be replaced.
Mitigation is a relatively new practice and most projects are less than twenty years old. A 1991 report by the Department of Environmental Regulation (now the DEP) assessed the effectiveness of mitigation wetlands in Florida. The report was to determine if the new wetlands were functioning properly (ecologically successful) and if they were in compliance with the regulations of the permit. Results ranged from minor problems such as reports not being submitted to major ones such as no mitigation being attempted at sites where wetland loss has occurred. Less than half of the created saltwater wetlands functioned naturally, and in some cases, only 10% of the created freshwater wetlands worked at all.

Attempting to recreate or replace what was lost sounds like a good idea in theory. In reality however, it is difficult to mimic the complex and connected systems that nature created the first time.

Now to some of the local links I mentioned, I use these for identifying wetlands some are national (not just Florida) you may or may not already have some of these,

The PLANTS Database provides standardized information about the vascular plants, mosses, liverworts, hornworts, and lichens of the U.S. and its territories.
Welcome to the PLANTS Database | USDA PLANTS


The Atlas of Florida Vascular Plants
ISB: Atlas of Florida Vascular Plants


National Wetlands Inventory
Providing Wetland Information to the American People
National Wetlands Inventory


National Hydric Soil List (Database file)
Hydric Soils | NRCS Soils

[DougF]

I found some links that mite help you Identify Grasses. I use this one quite a bit.

http://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/turfid...rderDesc=Grass
grasses - Introduction
http://ipm.ppws.vt.edu/weedindex.htm

[Cedars]

I knew they were working on this project, now it seems some results are being seen and more pieces are nearing completion.

Quotes from the article:

"The goal: restore wildlife habitat lost to a half-century of erosion and, in turn, bolstering fishing, waterfowl migration and the overall health of the river’s northern stretches.

Officials are considering it as a model for restoration on the Rio Grande as well as the Parana River in Brazil and the Yangtze River in China, Hubbell said.

The corps also is building islands in Chesapeake Bay and off Louisiana and Mississippi. "

Habitat islands emerge on Mississippi - Environment - MSNBC.com

[freeztar]

The plaintiff groups argued successfully that the project's levee and two large pumps would cut off the Mississippi River from the last major piece of the floodplain to which it is still connected and in the process would have devastated tens of thousands of acres of floodplain wetlands while failing to provide the flood control benefits it promised.
...
"This single project would drain more acres of wetlands than all the wetlands drained by the country's developers in a single year, yet it would not reduce the frequency of flooding in the towns it was intended to benefit," said Tim Searchinger, the attorney who represented Environmental Defense and the National Wildlife Federation in the lawsuit. "I'm happy the court agreed to halt the project."

Environmentalists Win Halt to Missouri Flood Control Project

So it seems the ACoE has done something right at least (referring to your link above, Cedars)...

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Environmentalists Win Halt to Missouri Flood Control Project

So it seems the ACoE has done something right at least (referring to your link above, Cedars)...

Interesting article there. I had no idea they were up to such a project. Favorite quote...

"He found that the Corps was "manipulating models and changing definitions where necessary - to make this project seem compliant with the Clean Water Act and the Nation Environmental Policy Act when it is not."

We messed up alot of things when we didnt know better. Salmon runs in the PNW for example and locally it is believed dams caused the disruption of the migration of the tulibee fish which in turn caused the demise of a certain freshwater mussel which hitches a ride on the tulibee for the first year of life.

But to see continued efforts of this magnitude, which includes manipulation of facts to keep on damaging the ecosystem a few miles south of where they are trying to reverse these very efforts seems so... well, bi-polar...

Thanks for the balancing link there Freeze.

[freeztar]

This is a very exciting article for those interested in wetland science/preservation. Rather than do the normal mitigation for losses to wetlands (ie create wetlands somewhere else in place of those destroyed on site), these creative scientists want to transplant a sensitive vernal pool community to another recreated area. The biological challenges involved are daunting, but if the project is successful it will teach us much about sensitive ecological niches and how they can be preserved and recreated.

New Era Progress | Transplant procedure: Scientists, company moving wetland to save it

[freeztar]

This is from the ASWM's newsletter:

MN: Concerns grow about disappearing prairie potholes ecosystem

Minnesota Wire – CBS Broadcasting – November 12, 2007
The humble name given to ``prairie potholes'' the ponds, wetlands and small lakes dimpling Minnesota and the eastern Dakotas belies the mounting concerns here and nationally about their disappearance from the landscape. Potholes are considered key habitat for almost 200 species of migratory birds. But with federal inducements to plant more crops and the financial rewards of renting out the land, many farmers are ending land-preservation agreements. With a federal report warning of the need to protect them, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources is doing flyovers to investigate whether potholes are being drained illegally. At stake is ``arguably the most endangered ecosystem in the world,'' said Rex Johnson, a wetlands expert and wildlife biologist for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Fergus Falls. The U.S. Government Accountability Office warned last month that the Fish and Wildlife Service is falling behind in protecting the pothole region. The study estimated that it will take 150 years and billions of dollars for the agency to acquire enough land to sustain healthy bird populations. For full story, go to: wcco.com - Minnesota Wire For another story on prairie potholes, go to: We have 10,000 lakes, but do we have enough of these?

Anyone know anymore about this? Cedars?

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by freeztar

This is from the ASWM's newsletter:
Anyone know anymore about this? Cedars?

I had read an article on this earlier this month.

Its basically years of inaction on the part of the DNR. No monitoring. No funds to monitor/map and there are unintended consenquences. Example near my moms.

There was a small creek that flowed thru a state park. This creek had species of minnows in it that are not protected, but it fed a vibrant wetland. I roamed this parkland for years before the DNR purchaced it. It was my park long before the State got their hands on it.

Anyways, a development went in along a lake approx 3 miles west of this stream. Thru the no wetlands loss program and because this particular year was dry (not drought), the developers plan was approved and they blocked off the drainage and bought out some other 'replacement' to compensate.

The creek never flowed during summer again. It runs during melt off or extreme rains as drainage. Up until that time, this creek was never fully dry. It would be reduced to a trickle at times, but now its basically a drainage ditch.

The wetlands below it are still functional, receiving other flowages. Output from this wetland has been reduced some, no doubt. One thing for sure is three miles of creek is basically gone now.

Thats one example that has no doubt been repeated elsewhere in the state.

Other examples are barely legal drainage. An example of that occured one mile north of me via a farmer who wanted to plant a low land. He was correct when he applied for his permit to drain this area (approx 4 acres). It would dry out by July/Aug. But the DNR gave him his permit ignoring the fact that this wetland provided duck nesting habitat, frog rearing grounds, etc. That farmer has died and his land is lotted off. The drain has been removed and the lowland is slowly returning. But the county allowed a huge development in its place so this area is lost to wildlife. The only thing preventing the complete loss is the slowed housing market. I think this developer is going into bankruptcy now.

Other pieces of this fall directly on the state of MN and the Feds. We have a RIM (reinvest in Minnesota) program and others where farmers get paid to set aside pieces of land. Often these lands set aside surrounded these potholes, lowlands, swamps, etc. This usually involves a 10 year commitment but the farmer can opt out at basically anytime via notice to the program. With all the investment into corn ethanol, there was extreme speculation on profits from growing more corn. I saw alot of idle fields around me being planted this year simply to produce corn. These fields I am speaking of were most likely not even in one of these programs, just land not being used.

And all this combined with dry years, lack of winter snows to refill these potholes, changes in land use patterns resulting in more rains being absorbed into croplands when they do fall and not running off into the potholes, and wind/water erosion filling in the potholes.

I dont know that its illegal draining that is the real factor in the loss of potholes or if its a combination of many factors resulting in less potholes holding water.

I could rant on and on about the MN DNR and the things I hate about its focus over the last 20 years. As well as the FWS, Dept of Interior, Dept of Agriculture.... its all about the politics.

[freeztar]

Yes, it is very political. The main point I get from your account is that development is the biggest threat. At some point we're going to have to sit and think about which is more valuable, a wetland or a strip mall. I hope we make the right choice when that time comes because right now we are not.

Thanks for the reply Cedars!